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Alargeoneplease89 · 01/09/2023 19:24

It's opt out ... non story

MintJulia · 01/09/2023 19:25

My ds will turn 16 about a week before he starts 6th form.

Not quite sure how he'll fit it in but if he could design his own scheme, he'd be up for it. He'd like someone to teach him how to service a mountain bike properly, and in return he would happily service all the local primary kids' bikes.

There you go, Mrs Mordaunt, find someone who can actually provide some decent training for free, in our town, and you have a volunteer. 😊

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 19:26

JaneyGee · 01/09/2023 17:34

It’ll never happen. Still, you can make a strong case for it. There is something to be said for discipline, patriotism, team-work, overcoming challenges, pride in your unit, etc. Many young people really have been transformed by a spell in the army. It isn’t all about bullying and breaking your spirit. On the contrary. The aim is to build you up and help you grow. We live in an incredibly selfish, individualistic society, where everyone is out for themselves. The armed services are the opposite. They are all about teamwork and the collective good. Frankly, I think we need more of that. And I say that as a middle of the road conservative.

Also, the armed forces have saved countless young people. When a boy with a crap home life, who has never been helped or encouraged, passes his basic training and is given a uniform, it instils a sense of pride and achievement. And if an older sergeant (especially a man he respects) praises him, it means the world - especially if no one ever praised or encouraged him before. Often, kids like that will drift into gang violence because they are looking for exactly what the army provides, i.e a tribe, a father figure, and a sense of excitement.

I recently read Kelly Holmes' autobiography and she said similar. It should not be compulsory though.

Although - making everyone work in retail for 3 months might reduce the levels of rudeness of customers!

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 19:28

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 21:42

Nobody under 83 did compulsory National Service-it’s bizarre that people who never had to do it and won’t have to do it, are suggesting that young people should have to !

Yes this always makes me laugh. My uncle is 87 and he did it. He played football in what was Malaya for two years. FIL also did it but he would be 95 now if he was still alive.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 01/09/2023 19:32

BIossomtoes · 31/08/2023 22:23

Because they love encouraging divide and rule. While you’re busy boomer bashing you’re not blaming this apology for a government.

Show quote history

Gen X are not boomers. They were born until 1982! Hardly post-war babies!

HRTQueen · 01/09/2023 19:41

pointythings · 01/09/2023 19:06

@HRTQueen which countries in Europe still have some form of national service?

@JaneyGee the patriotism argument makes me want to vomit, and you must be seeing a completely different class of teenagers from the one I have been around. Also I'm glad that society is becoming less geared towards conformity and more tolerant of people's individual quirks. Let's not try to go backwards.

Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark have a form of NS but military based

one that was about community work and education for all children across our society I believe would be good help with career abs education choices. So many children get lost at this age

my ds will soon turn 16, he is very privileged compared to many. I work with mainly younger ex offenders with mh issues. Sadly there lives could have been turned around at a much younger age the structure and boundaries were not there to help support them.I do not feel my ds needs to be kept in his privileged bubble

Notonthestairs · 01/09/2023 20:02

The people suggesting the policy think it will cost a billion.

They think it could be paid for by altering pensions.

No party will ever meddle with pensions. Pensioners vote!

But if we have a billion pounds to spend I'd rather we invested it in education & social hubs for teenagers. A bit more cash to train mental health workers and speed up CAMHS referrals wouldn't go amiss either.

PinkCherryBlossoms · 01/09/2023 20:20

Notonthestairs · 01/09/2023 20:02

The people suggesting the policy think it will cost a billion.

They think it could be paid for by altering pensions.

No party will ever meddle with pensions. Pensioners vote!

But if we have a billion pounds to spend I'd rather we invested it in education & social hubs for teenagers. A bit more cash to train mental health workers and speed up CAMHS referrals wouldn't go amiss either.

I was thinking the same, imagine if that sort of money could be used to actually provide proper basic services to teenagers instead.

sadaboutmycat · 02/09/2023 16:20

@ginghamstarfish that is very offensive.

Natsku · 02/09/2023 16:49

pointythings · 01/09/2023 19:06

@HRTQueen which countries in Europe still have some form of national service?

@JaneyGee the patriotism argument makes me want to vomit, and you must be seeing a completely different class of teenagers from the one I have been around. Also I'm glad that society is becoming less geared towards conformity and more tolerant of people's individual quirks. Let's not try to go backwards.

Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (re-introducing), Greece, Lithuania, Sweden (recently re-introduced) for military national service, not sure how many have non-military alternatives (I just know that Finland does, my brother did it)

ALongHardWinter · 02/09/2023 16:52

I'll believe it when I see it.

PinkCherryBlossoms · 02/09/2023 17:02

Natsku · 02/09/2023 16:49

Austria, Cyprus, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (re-introducing), Greece, Lithuania, Sweden (recently re-introduced) for military national service, not sure how many have non-military alternatives (I just know that Finland does, my brother did it)

Show quote history

The ones who border Russia have quite specific reasons for wanting militarily trained people I suppose...

Zebedee55 · 02/09/2023 17:11

First of all, I was horrified at todays youngsters being taught how to kill.

But this is just about some sort of voluntary work, so no worries.🙄

pointythings · 02/09/2023 17:17

@Natsku the majority of the Scandinavian countries only conscript a very small % of the total population every year, amounting to no more than a few thousand. That isn't what's being proposed here.

Lilithlogic · 02/09/2023 17:23

I can imagine the governments children will all have flat feet and they'll just make the rest of our children comply

Natsku · 03/09/2023 09:38

pointythings · 02/09/2023 17:17

@Natsku the majority of the Scandinavian countries only conscript a very small % of the total population every year, amounting to no more than a few thousand. That isn't what's being proposed here.

Every male has to attend call up the year they turn 18 in Finland, some of course will fail the medical and won't have to do anything but the rest have to either do military, civilian or delay because of studies (but eventually have to do it before they age out). They're considering making call ups mandatory for girls too (service is voluntary for women at the moment, but they might make call ups mandatory for all to encourage more female participation and so that everyone gets the medical), which would make it more similar to what is being proposed here.

I wouldn't be surprised if other countries increase their conscription percentage in these unsettled times.

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