EVERY 16-year-old in Britain could be signed up for 'National Service' scheme

[SerendipityJane]

Presumably their first "civic exploration" could be to rebuilt their schools...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12463729/Penny-Mordaunt-backs-National-Service-automatically-enrols-teens.html

I think it's to save admin costs.

Far easier to send out a NINO and a note saying "you're now enrolled on the NCS scheme. if you don't want to continue to be enrolled, click on the deactivate button" than have people processing registrations.

Can you show me where the proposal suggests it will save on costs? I'm interested.

Oh I haven't seen anything that says that. I'm just musing. And thinking that these govt wouldn't introduce anything if spending money was involved. Unless it was on sausage rolls for a bit of a lockdown do obvs.

I looked it up on the Onward website - £1-1.3 billion.

The NCS on the other hand receives far less - "Following Covid, the programme’s budget was significantly reduced. The youth
policy review of March 2022 committed £171 million in investment for the NCS
over the next following years - a cut of around two thirds, given the scheme at
its peak received £180 million annually. For the 2022/2023 financial year the
NCS trust has been allocated a £72 million budget, less than half of the funds in
2019/2020.12"

So they wont put in for NCS but they will for this scheme.

Why is that?

Well...

"Whether national service should be compulsory for all young
people divides public opinion
Onward’s research finds that 52% of respondents would be more likely to
oppose national service if it were mandatory, with 30% saying they would be
much more likely to oppose national service. 65% of young people would be
more likely to oppose it if the scheme was mandatory.
Respondents with degrees (60%), in the AB social grade (58%) and 2019 Labour
voters (63%) were all more likely to oppose a mandatory scheme. Only 2019
Conservative voters (50%) and Leave voters (52%) would be more supportive of
making national service mandatory."

Rather looks to me like its a little something for the 2019 Cons voters and leave voters.

Nevermind that 65% of young people that would be opposed to a mandatory scheme - who cares what they think.

I have one kid working his way through DoE - which Onward acknowledges has a lot of similarities with its scheme.
I'd far rather we stick that money into funding more kids to have the opportunity to participate in that and/or NCS.

@Notonthestairs do you think that means it's a way of cutting the NCS from 3 weeks to two (and possibly losing the residential completely)?

Rather counting on the idea that many people don't know about NCS and that this idea isn't a new initiative, but rather the watering down of an existing (and really rather good) scheme

Roughly the suggestion is -
Phase 1 - two week residential ideally all 750,000 16 year olds in Easter/School holidays with an emphasis on physical activity. Not entirely clear where the 40,000 staff are coming from.
Phase 2 - 50 hours of social action project to be done locally over 12 months. They'll need to match those that sign up to relevant local group if available in their area.
Phase 3 - year of service (not local) for 18-24 year olds. NCS already working on similar I think.

There is a reference to funding it by removing the triple lock on pensions (instead there would be a double lock).
This bit seems to be getting less coverage funnily enough.

I'm not opposed to opening up more opportunities for people to volunteer and it's not uninteresting idea but I'd prefer it to be less about garnering votes and more about what works best for the country.
And there are existing organisations (and people!) which would benefit from this money and frankly effort from politicians.

Every few years this comes up.

It will never happen.

There is a reference to funding it by removing the triple lock on pensions

I would love to see the Daily Mail headline for it! This will literally never happen.

More Tory rightwing nonsense. Thankfully they will be kicked out of government soon enough...hopefully for decades to come.

In fairness there is quite an interesting section on intergenerational fairness as the costs to the pension triple lock are expected to rise from £104.3 billion to £147.3 billion in 2027/8.
They havent been able to estimate the cost savings of changing the triple lock to double lock but suggest holding pensions constant as a proportion of GDP would save £2 billion which could then be used to pay for the scheme.
Here's a link to the full report - costs on page 63.

https://www.ukonward.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/GreatBritishNationalService-Onward.pdf

And what do they propose to do for people who don't opt out but also don't engage either?

It’ll never happen. Still, you can make a strong case for it. There is something to be said for discipline, patriotism, team-work, overcoming challenges, pride in your unit, etc. Many young people really have been transformed by a spell in the army. It isn’t all about bullying and breaking your spirit. On the contrary. The aim is to build you up and help you grow. We live in an incredibly selfish, individualistic society, where everyone is out for themselves. The armed services are the opposite. They are all about teamwork and the collective good. Frankly, I think we need more of that. And I say that as a middle of the road conservative.

Also, the armed forces have saved countless young people. When a boy with a crap home life, who has never been helped or encouraged, passes his basic training and is given a uniform, it instils a sense of pride and achievement. And if an older sergeant (especially a man he respects) praises him, it means the world - especially if no one ever praised or encouraged him before. Often, kids like that will drift into gang violence because they are looking for exactly what the army provides, i.e a tribe, a father figure, and a sense of excitement.

There is something to be said for discipline, patriotism, team-work, overcoming challenges, pride in your unit, etc. Many young people really have been transformed by a spell in the army.

This is exactly why l put the 🤮emoji n earlier. Patriotism🤮no thanks. I’d ensure my child avoided it at all costs. And l don’t think the army is transformative. In any way.

^^ this

Tbh you have been let down in your life by your parents downwards if this scheme is the first opportunity you get to do those things. And of course the army is a place where people punch each other for fun. It's not so inert place of endless discipline.

Yeah, l mean these adverts for god sake!😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Im sure these were ‘transformative’ in terms of recruitment. I find them just insulting.

The Army might be the place for many things, but it isn't the place for this scheme, which is nothing to do with the military

16 seems like the worst age to do this, peak uncooperative age. Surely better to do it at 18 or then younger like 13/14. And of course the government won't run it well, just contract it out to their mates with no experience. Otherwise it sounds like a good concept.

I'm sure Serco would do a fine job!

It's not going to happen. It's not even a Government Proposal. It's Penny TWAW Mordaunt canvassing Conservative party members ahead of the next leadership contest.

She really couldn't make it more obvious that she wants to boot Rishi out.

Well it's up there with Kemi "Gender Warrior" Badenoch and Suella "Stop the Boats" Braverman

I think some form of compulsory national service for all able 16 year olds is a good idea

many countries in Europe still have it, France have bought back trials

but it won’t happen too many parents with influence will lobby it’s not for my child

@HRTQueen which countries in Europe still have some form of national service?

@JaneyGee the patriotism argument makes me want to vomit, and you must be seeing a completely different class of teenagers from the one I have been around. Also I'm glad that society is becoming less geared towards conformity and more tolerant of people's individual quirks. Let's not try to go backwards.

It won't happen but anyone suggesting it should bog off. Nobody owes the State anything, least not the young screwed over by Covid or Brexit.

If the over 60s are so keen on it, they can do it (and yes I know a lot already volunteer or do unpaid caring).

What could work is far more apprenticeships which kids could do before university eg a one year course in something so they learn proper work skills. It would also reduce some of the unfair benefits of internships because everyone would get decent work experience, not just those with contacts.

As for military national service, do people really want everyone to know how to use a gun?