That World Cup kiss

[mids2019]

The news about the world cup is being dominated by an unsolicited kiss on the lips on a Spanish player. I do not want to condone the rather bizarre and overly personal celebration of the head of Spanish football (idiot) but I do feel the whole matter has drawn focus away from the football on the pitch and made the hugely successful world cup a feminist issue where discussions are now revolving around appropriate behaviour between men and women rather than the actual sport.

Young girl players instead of looking up to the heroic exploits of our players are now getting drawn into much more general discussions about personal limits and what constitutes assault. I think this is all a pity really.

Well as long as you've decided that a woman being kissed without consent in front of millions so she couldn't protest isn't 'exciting' enough.

😡

What is the other side?

He already has form for this kind of thing and if you look at the BBC clip published yesterday, he can't keep his hands to himself ever. He's always stroking their arses, grabbing their heads, going in for the mouth until they tip their heads away.

It isn't taking the spotlight away from the sport to show how men in positions of power in said sport sexually abuse the women participating in it.

@iDontBelieveAnyOfYou @Threenow

Imagine those women are your daughters. Is it still OK? Because the language you both use, together with the excuses given for the behaviour of this predator are, frankly, abhorrent.

@iDontBelieveAnyOfYou no, it's not a "bit of a continental thing" It's a bit of "abuse of power by men" thing.

Apt username though. 👏

You think it’s a bad thing for young people to be hearing a discussions about personal limits and what constitutes assault? Really? I think it’s a great thing!

the man has form for this. Massive form.

But it is not the media "making a fuss". It is a woman refusing to put up with inappropriate behaviour and being backed up by her colleagues. It is a good thing especially given how many young sportswomen have been abused by their trainers/managers in the past.

So because you’re happy to be kissed by your coach everyone other woman should be?

Women in sport IS a feminist issue, especially when it’s been so disregarded and ignored for so long. All the previous reporting around how great it is that women’s football is doing so well is all a feminist issue - just that it’s a feel good type of feminist reporting. If you like that, you have to accept the ugly side of it as well - it may not be feel good, but this is what the hugely successful Spanish players have CHOSEN to highlight- they’ve been subject to awful behaviour from the Spanish FA for years and maybe they finally now have enough voice to be listened to. I hope they do.

Right now I am worried about that - the Spanish FA are doubling down at the moment and saying “The federation also said that, if selected, players have "an obligation" to play for the national team, after 81 female players said they will not represent Spain until Rubiales is removed from his post.”

Good for them - as far as the Spanish women’s team are concerned, this was a long overdue conversation.

Woman standing up for herself = woke drama

Attitudes like this are the real feminist issue, OP

Given the number of cases where coaches have abused young girls (and boys) it's about time there was public discussion of boundaries. Hopefully people will feel more confident speaking out.

This. I'm shocked at the number of posts saying it's nothing.

@Richmondgal You are on another thread defending the use of the term "Karen" as a misogynistic insult.

Do you have a problem with all women, or just those who refuse unwanted sexual advances and/or speak up for themselves?

Don't think MattDamon will mind me copying and pasting this from another thread.

*There are years of abuse and general incompetence behind this. 15 players wrote a letter asking for better conditions last year and all but 3 of them have basically been blacklisted by the National Team. The fact that they still managed to win the WC is incredible and very much in spite of their management, not because of them.

The coach (who is best mates with the 'kisser') is a nepo hire. His dad is high up at the federation. Generally considering incompetent and unskilled for the role. He made the young women keep their hotel doors open until 11 PM every night so he could 'check' on them. He did random checks on their bags and shopping (wtf was he looking for??) whenever he wanted.

It's about power to these sick fuckers. Several previous team captains were called up to the WC but they weren't allowed to wear the captain's arm band as 'punishment' for supporting the 15 players mentioned above. When the keeper was given the band she asked if she could give it to one of former captains out of respect. The coach went ballistic and she was banned from the remaining games.

The mental and emotional torture these women have been under has been horrific. Hoping against hope that change is finally coming*

Young girl players instead of looking up to the heroic exploits of our players are now getting drawn into much more general discussions about personal limits and what constitutes assault. I think this is all a pity really

They also need to know that they can set boundaries and don't need to put up with any type of abuse/ assult. Especially on camera for the whole world to see!
Have you already forgotten about #metoo ?

if you watch the clip, he's holding her head- no chance to escape that slimy kiss on the mouth

Yes, the head holding thing is really significant here.

Spanish FA are now threatening legal action against Jennifer Hermoso for “lies”. 81 female players have publicly said they will refuse to play for Spain if called up.

It doesn’t matter if you, I or Marge next door wouldn’t be bothered by the kiss, they key is Jennifer Hermoso WAS and it is her feelings alone that matter in this case and the exposure of the male sense of entitlement to female bodies that goes along with it.

I agree the guy is an arse and a kiss on the lips was socially inappropriate (this was a brief contact of lips). However a kiss on the cheek and hugging I think is acceptable behaviour in a high emotion sporting arena so I actually think a kiss on the lips while socially wrong maybe falls into a grey area. There are mixed messages about whether the player involved consented and I guess in such a noisy atmosphere there is going to be debate about what actually was said.

I do take the points about wider discussions about boundaries which are important but I think it is a pity such a high profile sporting event maybe dominated by these discusions. Huge efforts have been made by the sport and presenting teams to avoid talking overly about gender and having the whole focus being on sporting achievement which is important. There will be other areas to discuss make behaviour but in this instance Mary Earp's save should be on everyones lips.

I think women presenters (and male) want to talk about a sport they are passionate about and I detect an element of unease when they are pressures to voice opinion on sexual politics (maybe rightly so).

Another point is that you don't want to make the Spanish football chief a martyr to what some would seem political correctness as in some ways that may be counter productive. It is extremely important cases of sexual misconduct are called out but there is balance to be struck and I don't think women s football wants to appear to 'anti men'.

In reality I think for the sport the wrong team won the final and there would have been a much more celebratory end to this great sporting spectacle of England has won. There seems to be a lot of issues with the Spanish team that has deflected from the sport and I don't know if their success is necessarily an aid to the sport in general.

It's horrible to hear some women saying "it was only a peck" and "I wouldn't mind if my coach did that". Horrible apologists for sexual abuse.

Would you be OK if your daughter's boss grabbed her head and forced a kiss on her? If he does that in public, imagine what he feels entitled to do to women in private.

I also hate the attitude of brushing it under the carpet as we don't want women's football to appear "anti-men".
WTF? Your first thought here is not to offend men?!

@Moonberri given what some of the apologists are posting on other threads, I doubt they are women.

Brief contact with a man pulling her head in forcefully 🙄. Bloody hell I really wouldn't consider that brief if someone has to hold your head like that and pull it towards you to make you kiss them.

This man who thinks it is appropriate to grab his crotch and wiggle it around. He is an absolute arse that feels he is above everyone

I think seeing a young woman standing up against male abuses of power, and being supported by her peers, is a far more inspiring and empowering role model than someone's who's just good at kicking a ball around - and far more important.

@Richmondgal woke drama. Fuck me. What a sad indictment of the times that we are trying to dismiss inappropriate male behaviour in such a way. Very nice that you don't mind being kissed unsolicited some of us never want to be, especially after years of putting up with "just a pinch on the bum" "why don't you want a drink are you frigid?" "Show us yer tits love" "show us that pretty smile" etc ... I gave up putting up with that sort of bollocks years ago and glad to see others do it to. Horrible man he is too.

She has quite clearly said she did not consent to it. She was put under pressure at first to justify his actions. Now she has made it clear she did not consent.

No mixed messages there. Its quite clear, actually.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/66621772.amp

Rubiales also grabbed his crotch earlier during the game. He's committed an offence, is grim and needs to fuck off, like any boss who makes grim sexuals remarks and gestures.

Hopefully the 53 players (including the WC team) who have put out a statement refusing to play will be vindicated.