Where is the joy in parenting?

[ihatemyselfinthisgrey]

After another fucking stressful morning with my 2 year old, I've gone back to wondering where is the joy in parenting? I can't think of anything I enjoy about it. Yea it's great when DC laughs, and I watch them learn something new, or they tell me they love me. It's nice, but it's not joy.

I keep asking myself why have I done this? Why was I so desperate to be a mother? Because nothing about actually BEING a mother is fun. I hate the park, I hate pretend play.

I fucking hate the cycle of waking up/wrangling small child to get ready/ going to work/ wriggling small child home from nursery/wrangling to eat, then more wrangling for bedtime.

I hate all the wrangling about eating, getting dressed, going to the bathroom(!!!!), washing hands - the fact my perfectly normal child, seems to think he needs to touch his poop to make sure he gets to wash his hands after the toilet.

(Am already on ADs, am not depressed, work full time in a job I like, have a DH who does 50% and more)

I want to know what joy/enjoyment others find in parents so maybe I can work out how to find my own.

So tell me, what gives you joy in parenting/motherhood?

I struggle with this too OP. I have 3 of the little buggers as well 🙃

I flip flop between hating parenting and hating myself for bringing them into the awfulness of the world. I used to be a really happy go lucky, glass half full person, happy to do anything for anyone and just sailing along quite merrily.

Since I've had the children I've just found it so difficult. I hate the slog, the mess (omg the MESS) the constant constant grind of food, clearing up, laundry, toys, routines, milk, nappies, gym kits, classes... All of it.

I have 3 healthy children, we have enough money and lovely family around us. I have a part time job I like, we have a great school, decent house, I have a lovely DH. I have it all. I really, really do.

I do try my best to take joy from the children. From my biggest one listing the different types of trolleys you get as though he's delivering a Ted talk 😁 and from the littlest one dropping something and shouting 'oh no, sawwee mummeee!'

There is joy to be had. But the slog, the grind, the emotional and physical sucking. The relentlessness. The feeling that others are doing a much better job, that you're failing on food, screens, manners, whatever. It's hard.

Age 4-12 and 20+ are delightful in my opinion the rest is a slog with intermittent moments of joy

The best way to deal with it is take each hour, morning, day or whatever ever works for you as a fresh start. Try not to hold all the previous frustrations. Things feel much worse when accompanied by "this always happens " "I hate it when he does this " try to be in the moment with feelings. The past and the future are usually worse than the present. Also really enjoy and focus on the nice bits. Also pre empt things if you know he touches his poo move it away/flush it. Or accept it and wash his hands

Are you taking the easy path at least sometimes?

eg my kids (now 10 and 5) sound similar to yours. We often have the TV on the in morning and they eat their breakfast in front of it. We still help the 5 year old get dressed though many would frown on that.

but honestly, we have to get them and ourselves ready and out each day and morning screens make that easier. The get unlimited telly Saturday morning so we get a lie in / east morning and then no screens Sunday.

also I agree with other posters on two things:

• can you outsource some / more of the drudge? We by COOK meals to reduce the headspace of meal planning (I used to enjoy cooking but just isn’t have the headspace) we have a cleaner etc
• when you’re finding it hard, taking time out / away to do things that you enjoy and increase your dopamine is EVEN MORE IMPORTANT

We’ve got this societal myth that once a mother that should give women most / all their joy. But it’s bullshit. And as kids get older it’s suffocating for them. Don’t buy into it. Do stuff for you NOW and the parenting will get easier.

Not sure if I'd say this in real life, but tbh I think working ft in the early years leaves you with all the slog and tired cranky bits and less of the chilled out lovely bits. You're just rushing the whole time and running on cortisol.

I know a few couples who both work ft, kids the age of yours and they seem to feel the way you do. I think a lot of it is not having the time to hang out and relax with kids, plus fewer opportunities to see other parents with their kids and learn from them. And you just have less time to develop confidence as a parent.

I think by primary age it works better being ft in a job, of course by that time being PT or sahm will have impacted career but you can't have it all.

The joyful bits at that age were things like watching DC admire something simple like a dripping tap or a snail, or have them try to explain their thoughts with interesting turn of phrase, or play an imaginative game where they whisper to themselves and regurgitate stories they've read/seen.

You do need rules though, and to be prepared to sit through screaming to enforce them. You're down about it because you feel disempowered. Your child knows if he/she screams long enough, you'll give in.

Practical things I'd do if I were you - make time to just play, not think of other things or do other things.

Reduce your and DH screentime, read books, listen to music, have sex, do yoga or have a bath or whatever but give your body time to relax.

Try to see the world through DC eyes.

Think of some situations that regularly drive you crazy, think of a way to address eg getting dressed the rule is dressed before you can watch TV etc, or set a timer, or make it a game - brainstorm it so it's not the same everyday. Then go through other pinch points.

I always wanted to be a mum and don’t regret it but I totally support my DD when she is adamant she wants none. I have no interest in grandchildren (unless they come along obviously) but I really think not enough thought goes into what being a parent means,for life not just 0-18.
You can do it your way OP. The only thing I pick up is that there is stress due to time and your little could be picking up on it. Can they have a banana on the way to nursery instead? A picnic dinner? Do they sit in a high chair and eat with you as a family?

OP, What I am going to say is meant with kindness: I think you are catastrophising here, and have got into a doom loop.

By the sounds of it- you have a perfectly delightful child, there is nothing wrong or not good enough about your child.

This is about your response to the normal activities of being a parent. The fact that you are living completely in your head and over analyzing every thought and minute is the problem. You have depression and you are doing what depressed people do (think/find problems rather than live/appreciate).

The “I’m so OVER it” thinking is not your friend here, because my answer to that would be “So what? What do you think you’re going to do about that”. That is honestly not meant as a kicking whilst you’re down but as a genuine question.
Resenting your small child because they need to be brought up is not a thought process that leads anywhere you want to go.

you will have to decide what is best for you, but what you are doing isn’t working and will start to become perceptible to your child before you know it.

@Jamtartforme don't offer snacks if they don't work for you and your family. The next meal is only a few hours away, the point still stands.

Have you finished on the toilet? Are you finished? Concentrate! You are still on the toilet. HAVE YOU FINISHED?!?

🤣🤣 yes EXACTLY.

Car seat belts was a big one for me. Being able to say "have you done your seatbelts" and they have - or occasionally a shout from the back "Mum I haven't done it up yet!!" if I start the engine and they weren't ready. Makes things so much easier. Honestly you don't realise how much of this shit you are doing (no matter how great your parenting is) until it starts to decline.

The good news is I would say potty training was probably the peak for me, you may find it gets easier soon bit by bit. Once they can go to the loo completely independently that's a big accomplishment. And from there 🤞 you get more and more wins.

And their toys get better as they get older!! Steer them to things you will enjoy too, just a tip 😉 so board games and Lego are big in this house. I would rather poke my eyes out than ever play dinosaurs again.

No, op is calling her one two year old 'they' because if she said the sex we'd all immediately guess which of the nation's two year olds it is :)

My favourite time of day is the quietness of night time when lying beside the DC reading books to the youngest ones. It's pure bliss. I get that chance to rest whilst reading (they are 6 and 8).

My older DC self regulate when they sleep so they are way past that stage (teenagers).

I find most of it stressful, there's always something to worry about each day. But ultimately they are great fun as the family dynamics are constantly changing. I enjoy watching their sibling relationships blossom.

It does get easier in many ways once they begin to talk.

That’s it then - they know you don’t want to handle it. And let’s be honest, who does?

But you have to put up with that at first because that’s how they learn. Once they know you’re serious and committed, there won’t be tears and tantrums and whining for an hour. There won’t be anything in it for them so they won’t do it.

Don’t cajole - that’s stressful for all of you. Just leave them to it. If there’s tantrums afterwards then so be it - but these tantrums are for a short while as they learn .

If you carry on as you are doing they won’t learn and it will be stressful for far longer. Giving in isn’t an easy life, it just makes life difficult later on for much longer.

I haven't read all the comments but want to share a few thoughts.
Mine are now 10 & 7 and at times hard work! But so many more joyful times that 2 year olds... I promise it gets easier.
I was on ADs when they were younger and it took away the intense lows but also flatlines the good times. I found once I was able to deal with the crappy bits better that coming off ADs allowed me to really feel the good times too.
And I really NEEDED to miss them. Went back to work when they were very young just so I wasn't with them 24/7 and then I could really enjoy the time I was with them.
You are definitely NOT alone x

I think we're sold the joy thing so we just get on with it. I suspect it was probably coined by wealthy parents of old, whose children came nicely presented to them for short bursts.

There's a nice thread running through the novel, Bandit Queens, where every time a woman mentions her children, she suffixes it with a comment about them being a blessing/ joy, but it increasingly becomes said in a knowingly throwaway tone, when juxtaposed against the freedom the men have.

I was going to say the joy comes when they're old enough to chill in their rooms. But dd has just had a strop over having a shower, as she 'had one the other day'.

It sounds like a lot of your time with your child is the stressful morning and evening routine parts, which are stressful.

I found the joy was in the more relaxed times in between, out in parks or exploring nature, teaching them about the natural world or helping them discover new skills and activities.

The bits you describe will get better, though. Two is a really difficult age for that.

You feel joy when they finally leave home and you find you've actually survived raising them.

I think mothers are told a lie when they're told that parenting is amazing, fun, joyful etc. There are other emotions that we can feel such as contentment, fulfillment, relief and happiness, but parenting is hard slog and only a small percentage of it is actually a positive experience. We're not taught to find fulfillment in duty and responsibility now and people expect to be having those emotional highs all the time, but life isn't like that and we can't expect it to be. I think this is why people are choosing not to have children now and also why they're hopping from relationship to relationship and having affairs. If you're not the type of person who experiences joy through the small things then parenting will be a disappointment to you. There's no way round that.

2 year olds are hard work, their irrational and seldom can be reasoned with.

For me things got quite dramatically easier when my DCs were 3/3.5 years old. After that point there has been joy in abundance, they really are the best company and I love spending time with them (may change my mind when they hit the teen years however!).

Sending you a supportive handhold OP, it does get easier I promise x

This is lovely. Me too.

I get joy when 2 year old is proud of her self. Like when are first did a2 footed jump we celebrated together. Her grin was lovely. She can take pleasure in cooperating with the things we ask. Although more often she did the opposite. I try and do lots of positive encouragement and we enjoy that dynamic together. It makes her smile. I enjoy chatting to her and watching her development

I think it's also worth considering what you're doing when you reproduce. Nature wants you to pass on your genes. If the process exhausts you, ultimately it doesn't matter so long as your offspring survive.

That's a bit bleak maybe but I think approaching parenthood with expectations that it will be either like a job, or like a friendship, or like a hobby etc detracts from the seriousness of how it's something unique that is creating a new link in the chain of human ancestry that dates right back to time immemorial and could go on for many generations to come.

That's what I find fascinating about parenting - you get to have a new perspective on 'what are humans?' a child born to cave dwellers or to ancient Egyptians or to Anglo Saxons etc would have been almost identical to your child. Parents then would have found it challenging too. We're all here because of endless generations of mothers/extended family teaching their kids not to handle poo, to eat when food is provided, to recognise dangers etc.

You could change your mindset from 'why can't DC do xyz to OMG DC can do abc'. Basically, sit back a bit and realise that through all the slog and the wiping something amazing is happening.

This is an interesting reply because DH finds joy in those moments too. I find it nice, but don't FEEL joy. Just relief that it's not whinging.

I think I found joy in them all the small moments - but I do remember when they were young DH was working away think how long is it since I actually laughed - that wasn't just the kids our families were difficult, the house was in need of work and we had endless money issues.

I didn't find it easier once they started school either - they are summer born and were often exhausted and needed a lot of additional help outside to catch up.

They do change with time DS who was so stubborn had to learn everything the hard way -sometimes painfully - and nearly everything was a fight is now the teen that actually listens and acts on what we say and it the more biddable DDs who argue about everything now or eye roll at every suggestion - even when they actually end up doing it.

What do you think of as a moment of joy? Are you looking for euphoria?

When mine were little it was things like lovely cuddles, them laughing at silly things, seeing them discover the world, watching things through their eyes.
Now they are older, I love spending time with them, listening to them talk about their adventures, seeing their achievements, watching them take on the world.

Working full time with little ones is exhausting. Parenting is hard work. You need to take some time- holiday time or the weekends to just relax with them and hang out.

I think you've raised some interesting points here. I'm not sure I see it as a bad thing that people's ambitions are more towards actually enjoying their lives, but it's an interesting way of looking at it nonetheless.

This thread is so interesting! I can relate- mine is younger (only 1 year old) but I do feel I went in to it with the wrong expectations due to what you hear/see from those around you (which is usually just the highlight reel, not "I got screamed at for 45 minutes this morning). I think the advice to look for pleasure in the smaller moments (and accept contentment, pleasure, relief as positive and valued emotions, not just seeking "joy") is brilliant advice that I want to take on board.

I also relate in that we both currently work full time so unfortunately mostly see DC when exhausted and grumpy after nursery/first thing in the morning when it's a rush to get breakfast sorted etc. I'm going to drop to 0.8 FTE soon, as is DH, which I hope will give more space to have relaxed time with DC.

I do have joyous moments - mostly when I see DC enjoying being with DH, or laughing at the dog, or playing with extended family and friends. I wonder if that's because when that is happening I have a minute to stop, think and appreciate? When I am with them/in charge I am often thinking ahead to the next thing: meal time, bath time, bed time, sorting our dinner, etc. I hope that this means as DC gets older I will see more and more of this feeling, as they become less physically dependent on me/as I work fewer hours and have more mental capacity. I hope anyway!

Solidarity, OP! I find 90% of parenting is just like running around a muddy football field. In winter. In heels. It’s relentless.

Maybe some kids are easier, mine is stubborn and headstrong. Some days and moments he decides to not fight us on every little thing or throw tantrums, and there is a joy in that. The trip to ikea at the weekend where he sat in the trolley and told us he loved us and squeezed our cheeks. Getting words wrong. Getting words right. Exploring the world.

A friend once described her relationship with her toddler as the most toxic one she’s ever had. Toddlers can break your will! Hang in there, I hope for your sake and mine that other posters and mine are right and it does get better soon.

There isn't a lot of joy in the baby and toddler years. It's hard work and not a lot of reward - other than the hugs and slobbery kisses. Then they get older and become good company. You can have days out and holidays without having to pack a million things or chase them around. You can have actual conversations and learn from them. Yeah you get the inevitable teenage attitude but I view my older dc as a friend as well as my child and actually enjoy his company.

It's very unhelpful to say it now, but when you get to the stage where they are grown up and more independent you will yearn for the baby and toddler days where they were totally reliant on you. It's a cruel trick of nature really. We never appreciate what we have until it's passed because at the time it's bloody hard work!