Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

My ds dv

128 replies

Ds16dv · 23/08/2023 19:47

I have written about our situation a good few times under this name and a couple of others so you may recognise some stuff.

Anyway DS has got much better with his aggression and violence. Things are not as bad as they were although still beyond normal teenage stuff. So I'm still not really able to do stuff in the average parenting way when it comes to behaviour especially when it's linked to a siblings it's really hard.

So i was looking for suggestions in the following situation.

So ds 16 might say to dd13. You smell like dog shit. You look a rottweiler. And dd13 can sometimes have a deep come back and say . At least I'm not a nasty shit to everyone like you are . That then cuts him deep and he then aggressively gets on to me about dd behaviour and I should do something to sort it. Even though he started the cussing in the first place.

Another example is he can have music on really loud. The moment DD puts her music on. He's onto me about how loud it is and he thinks her music is shit. He then gets really nasty towards her and me.

I'm just not sure how to handle it without it Turing into something it does not need to be.

The situation since I first posted about it has got better. I do want that to be clear. But its still not right and we still have work to do.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 17:56

Woush · 25/08/2023 16:39

OK, I get it. I didn't mean to upset you OP. Back to the issue you asked about in the OP (if you're still reading)...

It sounds like your DS is perceiving you being unfair and favouring DD, even though you are clear you're not doing that.

If it was me, in responce to DS I'd be very clear and descriptive in how the rules are fair. For example: if the rule is "if I can hear your music in the lounge its too loud and has to be turned down". Things you might say to DS are:
● I can hear DD's music, so I'm going to tell her to switch it down. Just like I do with you DS
Or
● I can hear your music, so I'm telling you to switch it down. Just like I would do with DD.
Or
● I cannot hear DD's music, so I'm going not going tell her to switch it down. If you have music on and I can't hear it, I also wouldn't tell you to turn it down.

Its bring very clear and direct that the same rule applies to both. He can't consider that unfair then.

The other issue you mentioned was saying nasty things to each other. My own teens (DS13 and DS17) do this. Instead of telling one or the other off - I say things like "talk to each other with kindness". Or I'd remind them - you wouldn't speak to other people like that. Or "speak with some decency". Those kinds of things - not singling and one person (DS) out, just stating expected behaviour from everyone.

Neuorodiverse children tend to have a very defined sence of fairness. They need it to be regularly spelled out how things are fair and find any suggestion of unfairness hard to cope with. So it's all about making it clear to DS that house rules are equally fair to everyone. He will be calmer and more accepting then.

As times I have told both dd and ds to come to me. I na e had thdm both in front of me said the exact wording to both.. dd will do the Kevin and Perry thing. Omg is so unfair and strop to her room . I hear nothing else what so ever its done with. Ds will continue ot for hours and start on how he gets the blame . Ni one understands him . Gets abusive in his tone . Etc . Even though thru both had the exact wording .

On practical side of it dd bedroom is top floor. Ds bedroom is middle floor but it's directly below dd room. Its a new build so they are going to hear each regardless. I can't really hear dd music from the ground floor .

I think I just have to get the guts to tell him no your not controlling things in this house. No your not telling people not to have loud music whilst you do the same yourself.

OP posts:
Woush · 25/08/2023 21:01

How about putting numbers to it? There are free sound meters in App Store. They measure decibels.

Agree as a family what number of decibels is too loud. Then agree sound reading places. Eg DS's bed with door shut, sofa downstairs, DD's bed with the door shut.

The family agreement would then be:

● If DD's music is above xx decibels on the Sound Metre (which they can all download) when placed on DS's bed with the door shut, she has to turn it down.

● Equally, - if DS's music is above xx decibels (same figure) on the Sound Metre when sat on the sofa in the lounge, he has to turn it down.

● And also, if DS's music is above xx decibels (same figure) on the Sound Metre when placed on DD's bed he has to turn it down

You may find he has a point and DD's music is too loud in his room, its just youd not realised because you were two floors below. The key is to have constant and fair rules for them both.

You can't argue with numbers, especially if DS and DD have agreed together what's the limit. In agreeing that limit, they have to balance how loud they want to be allowed to have their own music, with how tolerant they are willing to be about the loudness of others.

It then stops all discussion about it in its tracks.

Woush · 25/08/2023 21:11

Regarding:

Ds will continue it for hours and start on how he gets the blame. No one understands him

This is a really typical responce from someone with ADHD. It's that strong sence of fairness.

Rather than try and shut him down ("tell him no your not controlling things in this house") professionals who work with neorodiverse children would instead suggest finding ways to help him see each decision is fair.

Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 21:38

Woush · 25/08/2023 21:01

How about putting numbers to it? There are free sound meters in App Store. They measure decibels.

Agree as a family what number of decibels is too loud. Then agree sound reading places. Eg DS's bed with door shut, sofa downstairs, DD's bed with the door shut.

The family agreement would then be:

● If DD's music is above xx decibels on the Sound Metre (which they can all download) when placed on DS's bed with the door shut, she has to turn it down.

● Equally, - if DS's music is above xx decibels (same figure) on the Sound Metre when sat on the sofa in the lounge, he has to turn it down.

● And also, if DS's music is above xx decibels (same figure) on the Sound Metre when placed on DD's bed he has to turn it down

You may find he has a point and DD's music is too loud in his room, its just youd not realised because you were two floors below. The key is to have constant and fair rules for them both.

You can't argue with numbers, especially if DS and DD have agreed together what's the limit. In agreeing that limit, they have to balance how loud they want to be allowed to have their own music, with how tolerant they are willing to be about the loudness of others.

It then stops all discussion about it in its tracks.

Ooo that might be an idea . Yes I get it about dd being able him. But he's also below her . So she's hearing his stuff. Plus the living room is below him . Also he had surround sound a base dd had just an Alexa speaker.

I'm going to look at the desabel thing 👍

OP posts:
Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 21:44

Woush · 25/08/2023 21:11

Regarding:

Ds will continue it for hours and start on how he gets the blame. No one understands him

This is a really typical responce from someone with ADHD. It's that strong sence of fairness.

Rather than try and shut him down ("tell him no your not controlling things in this house") professionals who work with neorodiverse children would instead suggest finding ways to help him see each decision is fair.

That's what I tried to do by talking to them together so they could not say I took Sides but he still managed.

He does not have ADHD. He has emotional disregulation. Maybe there are a few similar things .

I'm not saying this is right. I'm just thinking that's all. But I wounder if some of it is part of his DV issues. Ie controlling etc .

OP posts:
NancyJoan · 25/08/2023 22:08

HashBrownandBeans · 24/08/2023 07:03

My stepdaughter is like this and she’s heading for a personality disorder diagnosis. She can walk in a room and punch someone and it’s a joke, anyone else does it back they’re abusive to her. She can call people names, if they respond they’re bullies. Her whole day is lurching from one drama to another, falling out with this person, breaking up with another boyfriend, this family member did X to offend her. Steals from others yet woe betide anyone that touches her stuff! She’s the only common denominator. Not sure what you can do to fix it. It’s years too late for any intervention for my SD. She was already like it age 5 and nothing was done to fix it, so too late now she’s 17. She refuses all help and support and thinks she’s the normal one(until asked to do something she doesn’t want to then she cries about her mental health).

Lack of empathy, sociopathic tendencies, a love of drama. I have no idea how these children are going to fare in the adult world.

Sounds exactly like my friend’s DD, who is also 17. She was diagnosed with ASD earlier this year, but there’s clearly a lot of other stuff going on, and like your SD has been like this since she was 3 or 4. A whirlwind of upsets, things thrown and tears, with a really nasty side to her. I don’t envy you.

Anonymouslyikes · 25/08/2023 22:29

Wow. Your example argument could have come from our house. However it's younger sibling who is the difficult one.
It's hard, really hard. I've no idea how support them both, as they live different lives and want different things. I find I spend much more time and energy on the "bad" one, as nobody else will.
Today he was good (lost Internet privelages yesterday). I even got to yawn without getting a finger in my mouth. He pointed this out. When being good is such a challenge, you've definitely got to enjoy the small successes.

Cocoalover · 25/08/2023 22:49

He sounds very similar to my brother at that age. His behaviour continued into adult life (he's 30 now), although much less aggressive, he still has his moments. He caused me a lot of trauma growing up and a lot of resentment towards my parents because they always defended him and never reprimanded him. I eventually had to move out at 16. It was a horrible childhood for me

Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 23:24

Cocoalover · 25/08/2023 22:49

He sounds very similar to my brother at that age. His behaviour continued into adult life (he's 30 now), although much less aggressive, he still has his moments. He caused me a lot of trauma growing up and a lot of resentment towards my parents because they always defended him and never reprimanded him. I eventually had to move out at 16. It was a horrible childhood for me

It's really not easy. My adult son moved out with his boyfriend. They broke up. On an ideal world ds wanted to come back home. But he find teen ds to stressful. Sk he's spending half his wages on rent. He wants to see how things are here when his tenancy is due to end.

In my case I definitely don't defend my ds. Hence kicking him out at one point. Obviously I don't know your full situation or your parents etc. But its not easy its hard work extremely stressful.

My adult son does resent ds but he does not resent me. He knows how the system works and how hard it is.

OP posts:
Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 23:33

Just wishful thinking. But I really wish dd and ds were close. My 7&8 year old ds truly love each other always have done. They sit together on the sane seat all the time. Share blankets. End up in each others bed. They help each other. They hug each other. Kiss each other on the cheek . Play together all the time. If they do fall out it's for 10 mins

OP posts:
Boomboom22 · 25/08/2023 23:36

It all sounds very chaotic. 6 kids 2 adults moved out, this boy and 3 younger ones. And the elder girl is having issues with her own child too. Maybe routine and boundaries back to basics would be useful?

Original poster
Ds16dv · 25/08/2023 23:47

Boomboom22 · 25/08/2023 23:36

It all sounds very chaotic. 6 kids 2 adults moved out, this boy and 3 younger ones. And the elder girl is having issues with her own child too. Maybe routine and boundaries back to basics would be useful?

That's not fair to bring up My daughter. She has a child with special needs and she tries her best. Dd also moved out just because she did not big reason.

My family are classed as victims of DV from my son. But because of his age its dealt with differently.

Adult ds originally moved out to his boyfriend place. It was not planned. He stayed after a hospital op and never came home. When they broke up . Ideally he would have come home . But because of Ds and also his job he felt he could not . That is no reflection on me. Adult ds is lovely and we are very close

OP posts:
OverCCCs · 26/08/2023 02:16

storyofamodernman · 24/08/2023 13:33

It's heartening to hear that there's been progress with your DS's aggression and violence. Parenting teenagers is a unique challenge, especially when dealing with conflicts that can escalate quickly.

  1. Establish Clear Boundaries: It might help to set clear ground rules about what language and behaviors are acceptable within the home. Discuss these rules with both children and make sure they understand the consequences of breaking them.
  2. Encourage Empathy: Encourage both children to think about how their words might affect the other. Facilitate conversations where they can express how they feel and what they would like from each other. Focus on fostering empathy and understanding.
  3. Neutral Response to Conflicts: If a situation arises like the ones you've described, try to respond neutrally. Acknowledge both sides and guide them towards a resolution rather than taking sides.
  4. Create Individual Spaces: If possible, establish separate spaces where they can enjoy their music or hobbies without disturbing each other. Respect for personal space can minimize conflicts over shared areas.
  5. Seek Professional Help if Needed: If these behaviors persist or escalate, consider seeking professional assistance from a counselor or therapist. Sometimes, an objective outsider can identify underlying issues and provide strategies to help.
  6. Celebrate Progress and Reward Cooperation: Acknowledge and celebrate the progress made and emphasize the positive interactions between them. Reinforcing positive behavior can encourage more of it.

Remember, it's a journey, and things won't change overnight. Continue to communicate openly with your children, support them in understanding each other better, and model the respect and empathy you'd like to see them emulate.

Wishing you continued progress and strength in navigating these challenges.

Congrats, somebody learned how to use ChatGPT. 🙄

Original poster
Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 02:18

OverCCCs · 26/08/2023 02:16

Congrats, somebody learned how to use ChatGPT. 🙄

Show quote history

What does that mean ?

OP posts:
OverCCCs · 26/08/2023 02:40

Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 02:18

What does that mean ?

Show quote history

They didn’t come up with the content of the post themselves. They wrote a prompt about your situation and gave it to ChatGPT or another generative AI tool and then posted the answer here, pretending it was their original recommendations.

If you use these AI tools a lot you become very familiar with the structure and wording, and PP doesn’t appear to have bothered to modify the response.

It’s not important, just disingenuous and I was annoyed. I’ve been reading your threads OP and am hoping that things get better, even if the worst-best possibility is waiting until the day your DS is 18 and then kicking him out so he can present to the council as homeless.

Original poster
Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 03:01

OverCCCs · 26/08/2023 02:40

They didn’t come up with the content of the post themselves. They wrote a prompt about your situation and gave it to ChatGPT or another generative AI tool and then posted the answer here, pretending it was their original recommendations.

If you use these AI tools a lot you become very familiar with the structure and wording, and PP doesn’t appear to have bothered to modify the response.

It’s not important, just disingenuous and I was annoyed. I’ve been reading your threads OP and am hoping that things get better, even if the worst-best possibility is waiting until the day your DS is 18 and then kicking him out so he can present to the council as homeless.

Show quote history

Ah ok I could never use one of them. I would have to add really bad grammar . Or none at all and bad spelling all over it 😅

The thing is 18 year old adult males don't get help from the council sadly. One day at a time I guess

Thank you for reading my threads I know they can be hard to get. And understand.

Ds is meant to be starting a construction course in September I pray that he gos . I think it will be a really good thing for him. I think alot of the problem Is there's nothing to busy his mind. So hopefully good things for September

OP posts:
Fraaahnces · 26/08/2023 03:18

He needs to be told that “Banter” does not make disrespectful and abusive language okay - ever.
It’s not funny. Ever.
He also needs to be told that his music only happens with earbuds or headphones. It’s also disrespectful. (Same for DD.)
You need to start demanding respect for yourself and DD and making this non-negotiable. He seems to treat you two with the same contempt misogynistic Andrew Tate fuckers treat women.
Stop excusing his bad behaviour as MH issues. It’s not a get out of jail free card. It’s antisocial behaviour that will have him fired from jobs, etc, in the real world. (Potentially arrested). He needs to learn this now before it’s too late.
You need to be the kind of person YOU respect, so he can too.

CallItLoneliness · 26/08/2023 03:39

I've been your DD. I can tell you right now that it doesn't matter how hard help is to get, or any other fucking thing. Unless you do something that actually protects her (lock on her door, kicking your son out) you will have a difficult relationship with her as an adult. You are an adult. Your son is a violent, nearly adult male who is abusing you and your daughter, and since he has learned abusing you will get him in trouble, he is now abusing her more. He knows what he is doing, and you are letting him do it.

Original poster
Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 03:44

CallItLoneliness · 26/08/2023 03:39

I've been your DD. I can tell you right now that it doesn't matter how hard help is to get, or any other fucking thing. Unless you do something that actually protects her (lock on her door, kicking your son out) you will have a difficult relationship with her as an adult. You are an adult. Your son is a violent, nearly adult male who is abusing you and your daughter, and since he has learned abusing you will get him in trouble, he is now abusing her more. He knows what he is doing, and you are letting him do it.

You don't know what's been done. Or how I protect her .

OP posts:
WhisperingHi · 26/08/2023 07:17

"Son, I heard you say this"xyz" first, which isn't nice at all. DD is defending herself. Perhaps if you hadn't said "xyz" she wouldn't have said that. I think you need to apologise to DD".

Honestly though, at 16, I'd be coming down HARD on him, unless there's a reason why he's being like this currently. Sounds like a horrible partner and dad in the making.

randomusernam · 26/08/2023 07:33

Can you just laugh and say you are doing the same. Would you like to come and do xyz with me instead and sort of just ignore it?

ConnieTucker · 26/08/2023 07:55

Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 03:44

You don't know what's been done. Or how I protect her .

Show quote history

You are not protecting her. She is living this nightmare everyday. It hasnt change for her. Her reality is she is living with her abuser at 13.

In what way to you think you are protecting her?

As I said I know the thread is not horrible. But it is really upsetting me. Because I feel I'm having to constantly defend myself against everything all the time. Weather its on mn in real life etc . It feels to much
instead of constantly defending your parenting, and calling ss abusive for saying what you should and shouldn't be doing, why not listen? It is not improving because you refuse to engage. You wont accept your parenting is in any way a problem.

Original poster
Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 09:16

ConnieTucker · 26/08/2023 07:55

You are not protecting her. She is living this nightmare everyday. It hasnt change for her. Her reality is she is living with her abuser at 13.

In what way to you think you are protecting her?

As I said I know the thread is not horrible. But it is really upsetting me. Because I feel I'm having to constantly defend myself against everything all the time. Weather its on mn in real life etc . It feels to much
instead of constantly defending your parenting, and calling ss abusive for saying what you should and shouldn't be doing, why not listen? It is not improving because you refuse to engage. You wont accept your parenting is in any way a problem.

Show quote history

You haven't even asked what I do . You don't even know. Go away with your silly assumptions

OP posts:
SquishyGloopyBum · 26/08/2023 09:52

I feel for you op. The thing is, you say your DS has improved but it appears to be because you are tiptoeing around him so as not to upset him. You have said you are scared he will gurn violent if challenged.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. I think you need to start calling the police more when he turns. Not holding out until a very last resort.

You DD needs space away from him.

Original poster
Ds16dv · 26/08/2023 10:12

SquishyGloopyBum · 26/08/2023 09:52

I feel for you op. The thing is, you say your DS has improved but it appears to be because you are tiptoeing around him so as not to upset him. You have said you are scared he will gurn violent if challenged.

I'm sorry for what you are going through. I think you need to start calling the police more when he turns. Not holding out until a very last resort.

You DD needs space away from him.

No you have it slightly wrong . We was tiptoeing around him before quite badly. Because of his kicking of. It would upset the kids and I wad trying to avoid that and it was awful to cope with .

More recently although I still feel scared I have been been telling him no, that's on not etc . But im still waiting for him start some times he has not . The vibe and attitude is awful. Sometimes he tries it on with his voice/tone. Because this has gone on such along time the fear has set in. And it's hard to establish between the typical teenage strops/attitude and when it's going to kick off.

Its hard to explain its possible because I'm holding onto fear still.

OP posts: