My ds dv

[Ds16dv]

I have written about our situation a good few times under this name and a couple of others so you may recognise some stuff.

Anyway DS has got much better with his aggression and violence. Things are not as bad as they were although still beyond normal teenage stuff. So I'm still not really able to do stuff in the average parenting way when it comes to behaviour especially when it's linked to a siblings it's really hard.

So i was looking for suggestions in the following situation.

So ds 16 might say to dd13. You smell like dog shit. You look a rottweiler. And dd13 can sometimes have a deep come back and say . At least I'm not a nasty shit to everyone like you are . That then cuts him deep and he then aggressively gets on to me about dd behaviour and I should do something to sort it. Even though he started the cussing in the first place.

Another example is he can have music on really loud. The moment DD puts her music on. He's onto me about how loud it is and he thinks her music is shit. He then gets really nasty towards her and me.

I'm just not sure how to handle it without it Turing into something it does not need to be.

The situation since I first posted about it has got better. I do want that to be clear. But its still not right and we still have work to do.

My adult dd is actually doing this for her son. Apprently it's normally ain't at older children/teens. Thru actually do it at my house.

The thing is it's about desculating etc . I already do all this stuff with ds. It's about not looking for arguing and continuing things.

But she's actually here tomorrow so I'm just going to ask her a couple of questions. I just Need to find the words

It's not reasonable to prevent your dd for having a basic safety plan (lock on her door) because of your ds' reaction to this. You need to keep her safe.

You can explain the reasons why you are fitting one for her and not for him. You say he will fit his own lock, well, then he could fit his own lock now. If you can't control this then you can't control it. It's not a reason to endanger your dd.

Re calling the police - call every time. It sounds like you have got used to a level of violence in the house that most people would find unacceptable, so I imagine that what you are perceiving as borderline might be quite extreme. Ring if you feel unsafe, every time. You won't get more help if there isn't a record of how extreme the situation is.

😔 I have run out of energy to explain again 😔

Have you spoken to his support worker and asked their advice? This is exactly the kind of thing they should be supporting you, and him, to address.

The support worker is only working with him 121. Does not communicate with me. And ds has not been engaging with her.

Can you not not get onto social services again? Explain what’s going on? Threaten to make him homeless if you have to? I really don’t see how long term is safe to have a violent abusive person living with you and your daughter who doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong and is unwilling to change.

No its useless. I wish it was that simple. They make things worse and more stressful. But when people like me say that we are not believed. Because everyone nothings social services bare there to help. When infact thry have no answers either they just loom to be putting support in place

The support worker is only working with him 121. Does not communicate with me. And ds has not been engaging with her.

The Family Support Worker that was previously involved would have been able to help you with this. I know you think her focus on family routines etc wasn’t necessary but that work would have laid the ground work for helping you with family dynamics and discipline of all your kids. They work with a systems approach which looks at the family dynamics, family systems and routines - by centering the problem on your sons behaviour alone you really limited the potential work that could be done to support the whole family. And, as you’re now finding, trying to tackle him in isolation is really tricky.

There should be a review of the support plan and services, I’d be asking them to reintroduce family support and possibly look at family therapy - which his behaviour is problematic he’s not living in isolation and he’s impacting everyone, and they’re impacting him.

I'm not going through all that again. I have explained it over and over . I feel like im banging my head against the wall evert tone I try . I don't meant to come across as horrible. But this has been spoken about even to the manager and she agrees . It makes it worse I'm only just coping and om not allowing some crap about what time do the kids have tea. And crap like that because of a 16 year old that's an arsehole. I'm not doing it

I'm so sorry OP. What a nightmare scenario. I hope you are able to spend 1x1 time with your DD and that you have some emotional support from friends or family during this time. Dealing with this every day for years will be taking a huge toll on you. I know it's easier said than done but don't neglect your own needs during this time, they matter too.

Mothers with abusive teens are lost at sea with not enough support. I'm sorry I don't have any practical advice for you, just wanted you know that you are doing really well just hanging in there and riding it out. I am glad your DD goes back at him and isn't too scared to speak her mind too.

Thank you for your post. Yes it's extremely draining. Sadly as you say there's basically no support for people in my situation. Lots don't even believe it happens. Just have to hope one day something clicks.

It's interesting that you don't want your daughter to be labelled the Child in Need, but it's clear from what you write that you view her as in need of support (in the context of DS). I wonder if underneath you feel that the CIN lable is a judgement in you? In fact it's a statement of acceptance that your family needs the help.

(I've read your other threads OP, you don't need to explain why you disagree with this, I already know)

The manager and SW saying they will accept her not bring on the CIN Plan is because CIN Plans are consent based - if you don't give consent they have to agree with you. This is not an indication they think it's the right choice, just an acceptance that this isn't CP threshold and you don't give consent.

For what it's worth, I think you'd get far more help and support if you recognised that all the children need support - to deal with what happened with DS and to cope with the changes necessary to support DS.

I fear you're likely to reach the end this CIN Plan without feeling the benefit it could have had, because you won't allow that holistic family approach. So you'll end feeling like "there's basically no support for people in my situation", when that isn't true, it's because you give only limited consent (for only DS).

Anyway, like I said, I know you disagree from your other posts and threads and so you dont need to explain yourself. I just hope that with enough consistent gentle suggestions you might consider it. But it's ultimately your personal choice.

This is also my DSD. She would also deliberately manipulate things to go her way but then also laugh in our faces about it after. It was like it was not enough to manipulate, she needed us to know that is what she was doing.

She also has a tendency to use blocking. Don't agree with her blocked, tell her no or that you can't do something, blocked.

It has now got to the stage that we can not actively be in her life after being blocked 3 times within 1 year, each time it felt like we were grieving the loss of her and the DGC.

I suspected BPD, she suspects it too after obsessively following the Amber Heard/Depp case. She was talking about going to the Drs about it as she also knows she obsesses over things on social media - pizzagate was another one, but then fell out with us and blocked again. Even blocked her DB, he hadn't shared a post that she wanted him to on SM.

I hope you find the answers. I agree with those that say don't engage with him when he is acting like that. I think part of our problem was we were so used to walking on eggshells and avoid full family fall out but then when it escalated and we tried to assert boundaries she couldn't handle it.

I often wonder if we had just refused to engage over somethings over the years if she would have been happier and managed to control some of her impulsive behaviour and not feel that the world is at fault but she is the one that is holding it all together.

The same response every time from you and dd. Something firm but neutral ‘ I’m not listening to swearing’ ‘I’m not listening to insults’ or just ‘I’m not listening’ and turn away. One phrase, repeated every time. Only engage with positive conversation. Never swear back at him.
Does your dd have a safe space , lock on her door?

I'm going to put another spin on this from your daughters pov because I've been there as a child.

My brother was like this with me and my mum, i hated her for making me live in misery in order to facilitate his behaviour and moved out as soon as I possibly could. I thought of her as weak and thought she put me 2nd to him. I ended up with an abusive man because I thought it was the norm and mimicked my mothers behaviour to just pacify him.

He is 16, It's time to let him go fend for himself, he will hopefully work out that infact he can't get what he wants treating people like that. Your not helping him by walking on eggshells.

I know it will be hard op, he is your child. But you really are putting him before you and your daughter and I have an awful relationship with my mum now.

I kind of get what you mean. It wasn't the label of the CIN plan I didn't at any point say to the manager I don't want my kids on it I did not ask them to be taken of. It was during a discussion when I was talking about the social worker that she (the manager) said she was going to take the 3 younger kids of and just keep ds on.

But as I said I partly get what your saying had it been a different social worker I would have felt different her approach was very wrong for us. I felt so much more stress than before I told anyone about what had Been going on. Its also very hard to explain to people because often people don't get it they just say ss are there to help you . But that does not mean you should be made to feel like shit. What's the point of help of your made to feel shit .

As I Said it was her approach that made me back out. Its like talk to me, discussion things with me. Don't talk at me and don't demand

And obviously all the other bits

What do you mean by fend for himself?

Just count down the days until your son turns 18 and kick him out.
Harsh, but there doesn't seem to be an available father/ male relative, in laws, extended family, you have a grand child who has to be engaged in outside support in order to act right and you want support, but do not seem to want to go into battle when you are living in and enabling a domestic war zone...all for the sake of peace that is superficial.
Don't continue to throw your daughter under the bus for your son.
He is not her burden.
I hate these " help me....I won't do that " posts.

My daughter is not thrown under the bus. I have always protected her you have absolutely no idea how much .

I'm not enabling a domestic war at all. All these people that think there are simple answers and love to blame the parents. I asked fir help for ds use section 20 and it was refused. Not that I (want) hom under section 20 but it wad to protect kysrkf and other kids . It was refused.

"I hate theses people ' help me... I won't do that...

Your right I asked for (help) not to be kicked down further by the very people who are meant to be helping . She was ripping me down mentally and emotionally it was coming across like a form of abuse. I have had enough of that shit. I'm not having it from people who are meant to help. This is the problem because social services are professional the world sees them as angels to help children. People like me are not believed

This.

I really feel for your dd in this. She didn't choose any of this.

No she did not. None of us did. It comes under domestic violence. Sw said dd was a lower category compared to mine. But still there. He's 16 years old 6ft 4. Stronger than me etc etc. I did kick him out. Got rip apart by MN for that. I tried to get him under the care of social services under section 20. I got ripped apart for that to . Anyway social services refused it all we don't reach the criteria etc etc .

Had I Been in a DV relationship social services would have ripped into me badly with the threat of my kids Bern taking away. But because he's my son . It's fuck you all sid the younger kids your son has to stay.

They should have took him under section 20 done work with him and then intergrated him back into the family.

It's a 16 week wait fir him to even get onto a dv program. That's so long . Less now for ds. But that's a long wait for people needing help.

It wasn't the label of the CIN plan I didn't at any point say to the manager I don't want my kids on it I did not ask them to be taken of. It was during a discussion when I was talking about the social worker that she (the manager) said she was going to take the 3 younger kids of and just keep ds on.

I recall early on in the CIN Plan a few weeks ago, when all the children were on it, you were very unhappy with the work done by the support worker on routines and boundaries in the home - you didn't like having bedtimes or mealtime routines for the whole family being looked at. You made sure social care knew this.

What likely happened (from social care's point of view) here was they saw your resistance to this work with the wider family, didn't want to compromise you withdrawing consent for CIN for DS, so realised that if you are going to refuse or be resistant to the work with younger DC, there was nothing they can do with them on the CIN Plan. So removed them in order to minimise your resistance and avoid hostility. Social care want to work with you positively, not with resistance. It doesn't mean the SW manager thinks it's right that the whole family aren't on the CIN Plan.

That work on bedtimes, meal times, rules, routines, boundaries - is about taking a holistic view of the whole family. I honestly think you are unlikely to make any deep changes to your DS without it.

Going back to your OP. This holistic approach would look at the rules around things like the way the children speak to each other, ways to get eveyone on board with house rules like music volume. These things can't really be done with DS in isolation then he's likely to feel singled out and so it will build resentment and make sibling tensions worse.

You don't need to explain why you disagree with this, I read your other threads. I know you hated having to justify the younger one's bedtimes etc. This was the holistic approach though. I also know you're frustrated now because this work with DS isn't achieving much more than superficial sticking-plaster type changes. You are right on this, but SW are doing all they can without you consenting to the work needed for a holistic whole-family approach.

I guess I'm pointing out that you can't have it both ways. You won't get whole-household changes if you are resistant to social care looking at the way the whole family works. So the outcome that they can't really make any significant differences in the home will be be true. Especially if DS himself if refusing to engage.

Just something to think about.

I'm going to ask this thread to be removed or I may just hide it. As its not actually a nasty thread just people discussing things. But I feel people are not understanding that I know what's helpful for my family and what's not. I had also said several times yes there are bits about the support worker that I felt was not helpful. But I also said she was nice and approachble. So I would talk to her. Out of all the professionals it was only the (social worker) that I had real issues with no one else.

I said on my op that although we still have away to go ds had improved compared to several weeks back. I tried to say that in my op.

When I wrote the post I was thinking ok things have moved forward a bit. Its now time to say to ds no you can't be acting that way you can't dish it out and then play victim. But the other part of me was thinking how do I do that without him blowing up.

As I said I know the thread is not horrible. But it is really upsetting me. Because I feel I'm having to constantly defend myself against everything all the time. Weather its on mn in real life etc . It feels to much. Im literally trying not to cry over a poxy thread. I felt when I made my op it was different from my other posts it was about trying to go to the next phase so that I can pull ds up on his shit I now realise it's no different to my other posts.

So if I don't reply it's not because I'm ignoring. I just don't feel strong enough just now.

Fend for himself= kick him out OP.
You have to protect your daughter.
No matter that MN and SS rip into you if you do that. Remember SS can't actually legally make you have an over 16 back in the house - no matter what they say.

OK, I get it. I didn't mean to upset you OP. Back to the issue you asked about in the OP (if you're still reading)...

It sounds like your DS is perceiving you being unfair and favouring DD, even though you are clear you're not doing that.

If it was me, in responce to DS I'd be very clear and descriptive in how the rules are fair. For example: if the rule is "if I can hear your music in the lounge its too loud and has to be turned down". Things you might say to DS are:
● I can hear DD's music, so I'm going to tell her to switch it down. Just like I do with you DS
Or
● I can hear your music, so I'm telling you to switch it down. Just like I would do with DD.
Or
● I cannot hear DD's music, so I'm going not going tell her to switch it down. If you have music on and I can't hear it, I also wouldn't tell you to turn it down.

Its bring very clear and direct that the same rule applies to both. He can't consider that unfair then.

The other issue you mentioned was saying nasty things to each other. My own teens (DS13 and DS17) do this. Instead of telling one or the other off - I say things like "talk to each other with kindness". Or I'd remind them - you wouldn't speak to other people like that. Or "speak with some decency". Those kinds of things - not singling and one person (DS) out, just stating expected behaviour from everyone.

Neuorodiverse children tend to have a very defined sence of fairness. They need it to be regularly spelled out how things are fair and find any suggestion of unfairness hard to cope with. So it's all about making it clear to DS that house rules are equally fair to everyone. He will be calmer and more accepting then.