Sara Sharif

[mauvish]

Sara, aged 10, was found dead in the family home.

The police "want to speak" with Sara's father and his partner, who flew to Pakistan the day before Sara's body was found, and then phoned (don't know who) from there:

The call led officers to the house in Woking where they found the body of Sara who had sustained "multiple and extensive injuries", likely to have been caused over a sustained period of time.

Another child suffers at the hands of those who should care. I hope they get them back from Pakistan but I wonder what the chances of that are.

RIP, Sara.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-66563430

Somehow we seem to be in the mad scenario where the local authority has far more power to inspect cake hygiene than the welfare and educational progress of vulnerable children. Do we, as a scenario, really care more about cakes than child abuse?

But that isn't true. LAs have the same powers regarding vulnerable home educated children as they do regarding vulnerable schooled children.

Either way, still a misconception and stereotype

Though nothing like your accusation, which was a blatant lie, no?

Stereotype or just not enough knowledge?

I don't think it's necessarily islamaphobic to not understand that there are different expectations inside house if you're not familiar with the religion?

All children are, on some level, vulnerable. Some more vulnerable than others, but all are vulnerable.

The current system creates a scenario where parents can refuse access to their home educated children so that no one in authority has direct contact with the child and no one knows that the child is especially vulnerable, and so they can't force access.

This specific issue was raised in the case of Dylan Seabridge.

"A well-placed council source said that officials did try to visit Dylan but were denied access to him. They had no evidence that he was being mistreated so did not have the power to force the Seabridges to show them the child."

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/22/concerns-raised-about-boy-who-died-of-scurvy-a-year-before-his-death-leaked-report

Home education doesn't create an abuse / neglect scenario from scratch, but it does allow abusive and neglectful parents to evade scrutiny, and stop their children seeking outside help.

Sorry, are you actually defending the Islamophobia on this thread because I exaggerated the language used? Seriously? That’s your takeaway from this?

Interesting set of priorities there.

If you make an assumption about someone based solely on their religion, then you are relying on stereotypes. There are hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world, living in different parts of the world. Not all Muslims are the same. The assumptions on this thread are awful.

Sorry, are you actually defending the Islamophobia on this thread because I exaggerated the language used? Seriously? That’s your takeaway from this

You didn’t ‘exaggerate the language used’. You completely made up a comment that nobody made.

You believe that some posters are demonstrating Islamophobia and that may or may not be a valid opinion. I actually don’t know. What I strongly object to is you making up an inflammatory comment that has not been used on this thread by anyone except you and using that lie to make accusations against posters.

The current system creates a scenario where parents can refuse access to their home educated children so that no one in authority has direct contact with the child and no one knows that the child is especially vulnerable, and so they can't force access.
Yes I see your point. However, you are talking about the Education Department of LAs and what they can/can't do. If they suspect that parents aren't fulfilling their legal (educational) obligations they can ask the court to issue a school attendance order.

Obviously the Police and Social Care Departments have the same duties and rights regarding access to home educated children as they do schooled children.

Can you show me where I put my comment in bold or italics or quotations marks, thereby suggesting I was quoting someone, thereby making it up and lying?

The insinuations and stereotypes on this thread are shameful and it really isn’t the place for people to push through their anti-Islamic agenda.

I recognise your username - you’ve posted quite disparaging posts on another thread about Muslims before, so your faux outrage at my post highlighting the tone of some of the posts on this thread is not going to work on me.

I recognise your username - you’ve posted quite disparaging posts on another thread about Muslims before

I have not. Lie 2

As I said, I knew I recognised your name, and it came up in another thread about Islam last year where I had to report your posts. So no, not a lie.

In any event, I’m going to stop engaging with you, because this thread is not the place when it’s meant to be about the poor girl who was killed. But by all means, carry on.

Good night.

Police and SS cannot do anything unless someone alerts them to a safeguarding concern.

Who is most likely to raise a safeguarding concern? A quick Google didn't supply stats but logic would dictate that non-family members who see the child very frequently and are trained in safeguarding (aka school staff) are most likely to spot the signs and alert police and social services.

There's two strands to it all
A) the quality of education provided - but parents can refuse to allow the education department access.
B) abuse and neglect - but if no one outside the family is regularly seeing the child, there's no one likely to raise a safeguarding concern, so the police and SS are unable to act

The system of allowing HE without external oversight allows parents to isolate their children from all outside professionals.

Home educating families should be inspected annually - more often if concerns are raised - both to check that they're meeting the standards school educated children are (allowances for SEN to be made) and that there are no safeguarding concerns, with inspectors speaking to children alone as a matter of routine. Don't want your home inspected? Don't home educate your kids (and don't bake cakes for sale).

As I said, I knew I recognised your name, and it came up in another thread about Islam last year where I had to report your posts. So no, not a lie

Nope, never happened. 🩲 🔥

But that’s just your family and outside of your home it’s common practice for girls to have clothes they can wear at home but they aren’t worn outside.

In fact act the pinafore dress the wee girl is wearing in the picture could also be worn outside with a tshirt underneath or a cardigan on top.

I think if you’re going to talk about Islamophobia you need to be on firmer footing than you are in this particular instance because you are quite simply wrong.

Going forward you should separate the practices you and your extended family have and think of the much bigger picture.

I’m more than happy to let you know why I feel very comfortable saying what I have.

I’ve just realised you were quoting me.

Well, all I will say is this - never let your lack of exposure to the wider world/other practices/ bigger picture trip you up anywhere let alone on a public forum when there are people who know more than you do about certain things.

I’m still happy to let you know why I can say what I have but by PM would probably be better in order to save you from any embarrassment.

Actually, having re-read the comments I’m going to knock this Islamophobia business on the head and say

I’m also married to a Muslim from the Middle East and I did it in the 70’s when it really did have the wow factor when it came to Muslims, Rich Arabs and oil Sheikhs. Such was the stereotype.

Im also a Muslim but only have been for 10 years. Not that anyone would know I’m a Muslim as I dress like most other British 65 year olds with a spring in their step.

Im also mum to 5 and a grandma to 8.

So yes, I can comment on practices that I know are normal within some homes.

Hopefully the thread can now return to Sara.

Totally agree, cafcass and familycourts have a lot to answer for in this case. See this time and time again.

Who is most likely to raise a safeguarding concern? A quick Google didn't supply stats but logic would dictate that non-family members who see the child very frequently and are trained in safeguarding (aka school staff) are most likely to spot the signs and alert police and social services.

In this case there were concerns raised while she was still at school. Or at least that is what the police and the neighbour have said. So the fact that she was later home educated has got nothing to do with it. If the authorities were unhappy about her being taken out of school to be home educated they could have applied for a school attendance order ( or maybe they did, we don't know). Apparently she was taken out of school because of bullying.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-66593116

Poor, poor child. Whatever services have or haven’t done, the adults supposedly loving and caring for a child are ultimately responsible. I hope the authorities can have the father, stepmother, and his brother returned to the UK.

That's not what the article says.

It was only after Sara died that a schoolfriend told her mother she came to school with visible injuries, claimed they were from falling off a bike, and the next day she left to be homeschooled. We don't know if this explanation was accepted by teachers or not.

We do know that Sara was 'known to social services' and the police. Social services won't comment further at this stage. We don't know why she was known to social services, or when a report had last been made. It could have been years prior; her parents seem to have gone through a messy relationship breakdown with mum not allowed access for the last 4 years. The police described their interaction with the family as being "limited and historic" so her recent situation appears to have been entirely off the police's radar.

One neighbour seems to have taken an interest in Sara's welfare, and I rather doubt this was welcome. Her dad appears to have told a neighbour a story designed to make her think that home education was in Sara's best interests, and therefore get the neighbour off his back. No one else seems to mention bullying.

Indeed, the timing of the facial injuries and her removal from school the next day make it seem highly likely that she was removed in order to keep her out of sight of teachers who might start to question the falling off a bike story. 5 months later she was dead.

Fundamentally, children who are in school have an opportunity each and every day to see a trusted adult who they could disclose abuse to, and who could notice that something isn't quite right. Home educated children don't have that, or anything really.

The nice middle class parents who want to teach maths through baking cakes, read to their children every day and use InterHigh seem wilfully ignorant of the very real safeguarding issues that crop up in some families, and loudly oppose any form of regulation or inspection for home educators in case it inconveniences them. Putting their convenience over the lives of children like Sara, Dylan and Khyra displays a stunning sense of selfishness.

I myself follow a religion that is a minority in the UK (more of a minority than Islam) and also has cultural expectations that men and women dress modestly.

My comment about the photo was less about the dress and more about the heavy, full coverage adult make-up complete with contouring. I would be concerned if I saw a picture of my daughter's friends wearing that much make-up, too.

Obviously entirely subjective. Coupled with the dress, the blank expression and the pose on the bed, it raised alarm bells for me. And clearly did for others too.

@HiHoHiHoltsOffToWorkWeGo sadly school is often an abused hild's only place of refuge. It certainly was for me. Thus we saw the sad glut of children abused and murdered by their caregivers during lockdown when schools were closed. It is very sad.

Someone asked why this was the only picture the mum had of her daughter (is it even true) and I suspect this picture was taken and deliberately sent to the mum to show her look how beautiful and happy your daughter looks now that she’s living with me. It was a way of rubbing salt in a wound.

And I’m still of the opinion there was an occasion going on and this was her ready for it.

Sadly I think it will take a long time to get justice for this little girl. I think the Pakistani Government will eventually extradite at least the father through an MOU (no formal extradition treaty) but given Pakistani society is not exactly known for its respect for women and girls, it might take a while.

@PollyThePixie I don't want to turn this into a personal thing but don't patronise me. You have no idea about my world experience and there's no danger of me feeling embarrassed about anything.
There are posters on this thread making assumptions about this family based on them being Muslim and Pakistani. I'm fed up with people judging Muslims using stereotypes. We know very little facts about what was going on in this family.

I wonder why Sara’s mother lost custody. I do wonder if there was a miscarriage of justice in the family courts. Did the father lie to get custody. He clearly is a cold calculating individual that can call a travel agent rather than ambulance as his daughter lay dying. Poor girl, incredibly sad.