Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

[twoandcooplease]

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty

Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

If Letby gets a life tariff I think it’s very questionable whether further charges would be laid. It would be hard to justify the expense of another trial as being in the public interest.

Well you may be correct there, as mass murderers are generally people who kill several people at the same time, whereas serial killers kill several people over a longer period of time.

But your strong defence of LL is somewhat strange, it seems you are really taking her guilt (or miscarriage of justice in your eyes) to heart. It makes me think you must be a friend or family member of hers.

@BIossomtoes a mass murder kills many people at ONE time as opposed to with cooling off periods. Are you unable to google it? I can help if so.

@magicalkitty I understand why you'd think that but not your bias. I haven't met Lucy and have no intent to do so but if that makes you feel better I understand. It's a difficult case. As I'll say again- I wish I could blame the deaths soley on her.

Sorry if I've misspelt anything. I don't mean to.

@nolamesallowed my point is she's not wearing a nightgown when the police knock on her door. Whether it's tracksuit bottoms or jeans, it doesn't matter.

Her giving the description of her opening the door in a night gown to lots of police gives an image of a defenceless young woman awoken in the early hours before they even know they have woken up, given little privacy or respect. It's a sympathetic image, and much more emotive than her wearing jeans/ joggers/ a hula skirt, whatever.

Some of those killings were pretty damn close if you look at the timeline - anyway it’s just semantics. And there’s no need to be rude.

So being a serial killer is ok, then? 😂 I think seven babies and possibly more is ‘mass’ enough for most people.

@RadishesForYou

The nightgown lie was brought up by the prosecution in court. She was allowed to get dressed. She had done that stupid narc thing of over embroidering the tale for sympathy- which she half admitted on the stand.

I have watch hearts beat through the transparent skin of infants. I have held slight older infants in my hands. I have kissed, changed and bathed them. I have watched parents fall to the floor upon hearing they are deteriorating, dying or have died in a hospital very south of the countess,

I cannot see a shred of forensic evidence pointing towards the accused. I'm almost 68. I'm an older woman with experience. I'm not even retired.

I hope that if I am wrong she is dealt with by the other inmates in a way only society can do so. I almost pray I am wrong. I don't want to believe the wider NHS have let this happen.

@BIossomtoes they may be close to the mass murder classification but are not.

But what would be a plausible explanation for the insulin. Other than deliberate poisoning?

Well I am just a layperson so am not sure how it works but the police officer on the documentary said further charges were possible. 13 babies died during Lucy’s final years on the ward and there were apparently deaths at Liverpool Women’s hospital when she worked there too.

@magicalkitty

I haven't said my feelings nor opinion of the nightgown allegation. I don't understand why you are saying I have. Please show me where I have so I can reply so.

I’ve not read the full thread but Lucy Letby is unquestionably, unhesitatingly, completely and utterly guilty, and thank God the jury saw that.

I can’t believe people think otherwise and it really makes me question the extent to which seemingly ‘normal’, perceivably ‘attractive’, ‘nice’ type women are given the benefit of the doubt. That’s exactly the kind of thinking that made hospital management bend over backwards to find any other explanation for what was, as the consultants thought all along, clear and continued criminality.

@magicalkitty

The other plausible reason for the insulin is that she didn't do so.

Honestly please everybody - if you can give me ANYTHING than circumstantial evidence to believe she is guilty- please do so. I am in genuine pain at the thought that anyone else has done so.

I am not defending her but only saying the forensic evidence isn't there.

You are defending her.

Sorry- dyslexic again.

I am in pain at the thought that anyone else has committed these crimes and has not been caught- not that she has done so.

Please excuse my typing. I am trying my best.

But if she didn't, someone else did.

So someone on the unit was deliberately harming babies. LL would have to be the most unlucky person in the world to be working EVERY shift a baby was harmed, and be the only one to do so, while being perfectly innocent.

And if all the non-insulin related deaths were actually all natural causes, she would be doubly unlucky to be on every.single. shift. Even more so that the unit didn't have those number of deaths before or after LL.

Or is it your belief that someone else on the unit was doing it to try and frame her?

She's either guilty or the most unlucky person in the whole of history.

@Makemineacosmo

Show me where-apart from asking for forensic evidence. Show me exactly where I have defended anything but scientific evidence and asked for anyone else to convince me otherwise.

Yes, of course they’re possible - I’m just expressing an opinion. If they found a whole raft of other deaths or abuse elsewhere then perhaps they’d bring a case, but it may be hard to win consent to take it to trial if Letby gets a whole life sentence and is therefore already serving the maximum she can serve.
Likewise, I very much doubt the poor families where the jury was unable to reach a verdict will get a retrial.

@magicalkitty I see your point and understand it but there just isn't forensic evidence. It just doesn't exist. I can't convict a person on circumstantial. I truly hope they have caught the right person.

I’m of the opinion that some people are defending her just to be contrary or have an argument.

Or they actually fell for the family’s PR spin that LL has been scapegoated. Cognitive Bias means they’ll never admit they were suckered in by her.

Have you seen her family or PR anything? Please link me to where. Maybe it will help me have closure.

@nolamesallowed

Have you read all the evidence? All the court transcripts are available online. Perhaps start there.

And maybe do some reading into criminal proceedings and how what you call ‘circumstantial evidence’ is widely accepted and used.