Page 27 | Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

twoandcooplease · 2023-08-19T00:47:10+00:00

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:15

That's all very well, but the names are still readily available on the Internet, so what was the point of an anonymity order?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/08/2023 15:16

I just looked it up, theDudesmummy, and it seems that while inquest reports are indeed in the public domain, the initial request has to come from "properly interested persons"

I don't pretend to know how they'd assess that, but as you suggest it wouldn't be beyond tthe wit of man (or woman!!) to find the details

https://coronerscourtssupportservice.org.uk/faq/#:~:text=Once%20an%20inquest%20has%20been,a%20fee%20to%20the%20Coroner.

Spamham · 20/08/2023 15:17

This.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/lucy-letby-trial-live-sentencing-date-motive-b2396184.html

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:18

You dont have to go to the effort of trying to track down the inquests to get the names though, I found a list without even trying.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:20

BeenThereDoneThat101 · 20/08/2023 09:26

Her father was more heavily involved though - he went to the meeting with her (unheard of and almost certainly not allowed in most instances) had a say in demanding apologies from the consultants,and that is likely going to be brought up as part of the enquiry.

She said her parents were overbearing.

The mother cried “take me” when she was arrested.

It is totally unrealistic, unreasonable in fact to suggest that the parents, the father in particular, shouldn’t fall under scrutiny. After all he was closely related to the enquiry which resulted in letters of apology being sent to his murderer daughter.

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There’s no reason why her father wouldn’t have been with her at any formal or even informal meeting, if she wasn’t a member of the union for example or if he was simply the person she trusted most. The NHS allows you a companion of your choice at any meeting where potential disciplinary issues are being discussed - as do most employers I’ve encountered in the past. I don’t know why you think it wouldn’t be allowed. I also think it’s perfectly understandable that he would to stand up for her, believing she’d been victimised. I would if it was my child, adult or not.

Tippley · 20/08/2023 15:20

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:15

That's all very well, but the names are still readily available on the Internet, so what was the point of an anonymity order?

So that they aren't printed again and again by the media? There's a difference between people being able to search the victims names if so inclined and them being printed and related forever to these crimes forever. Its about protecting their dignity but also for their parents and families.

theDudesmummy · 20/08/2023 15:22

@Tippley yes, I agree, but I was thinking more about tabloid "journalists" tracking down families and pestering them, or worse.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:31

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:30

BeenThereDoneThat101 agree. Her father also needs to fall under scrutiny as it was he who threatened to report Brearey and Dr Ravi Jayaram, to the General Medical Council unless they withdrew their allegations and welcomed her back. So thanks to him, they were forced into writing a letter of apology to her abs thus then delayed things even further.

Sorry, that’s just silly. Firstly, backing a daughter he believed was being unfairly victimised doesn’t make the father a ‘suspect’. Suspected of what? Secondly, don’t you think the police have already examined every aspect of whether anyone was colluding with Letby or withholding information as part of their own investigation?

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:36

BeenThereDoneThat101 · 20/08/2023 09:31

A union rep or a work colleague. And only as a witness, not with the ability to interject.

It absolutely is not normal to bring a parent. And there are plenty of others on these threads who say it would never have been permitted in their trust.

In fact the bringing of a parent is something we would attribute to the Gen Z’s of today and most would roll their eyes at.

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I can tell you it would absolutely be permitted if he was the representative she chose. Union rep, colleague, friend or relative - as you say, they can only listen and take notes - but the choice was hers. That’s how the NHS operates, I can assure you. I fail to see, anyway, how having her father with her somehow incriminates him. If I thought my child was being bullied by doctors I’d report them to the GMC too.

nolamesallowed · 20/08/2023 15:37

I wouldn't have found her guilty. I just wouldn't have been able to.

Summerisnearlyhere1 · 20/08/2023 15:40

@GardenBirdie at my Trust her father most definitely would not be allowed. The choice is union rep or workplace colleague. Not friends, not family, not fathers.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 20/08/2023 15:42

nolamesallowed · 20/08/2023 15:37

I wouldn't have found her guilty. I just wouldn't have been able to.

why not if the evidence supported it? Obviously it’s not and shouldn’t be an easy decision, but thank goodness you weren’t on the jury

itsgettingweird · 20/08/2023 15:43

Whatsthepoint1234 · 20/08/2023 12:29

Also I can’t find the comment but I think armchair diagnosing her with autism and a hoarding disorder based on her having lots of paper and being a nerd with a ‘childish room’ (that looks pretty standard to me tbh, not everyone has a minimalist bedroom with no fairy lights…) is offensive to people with autism or a hoarding disorder as it implies autism or a hoarding disorder is a reason to kill people.

Absolutely.

And completely misunderstands the actual diagnosis and why it's made.

You may have a hoarding do wording or autism and be a murderer.

But one doesn't predispose the other.

itsgettingweird · 20/08/2023 15:45

wayyour · 20/08/2023 13:16

How did we get on to hair colour! It looks light brown in the newspapers to me.

It is.

She isn't a natural blonde - it was died!

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:49

Lisbeinpar · 20/08/2023 09:53

i think you have misunderstood me. Obviously I do not know how the police investigation was conducted, but the case or prosecution was not centred on the insulin cases. Why was that? It just worked through chronologically child a etc. which all varied with degrees of circumstantial evidence. I don’t believe I could do a better job. You’re being a little presumptuous there with a smidgen of rudeness.

Because they have to lay out the evidence case by case, charge by charge, so that the jury can consider them separately. That’s how it’s done.

BIossomtoes · 20/08/2023 15:56

nolamesallowed · 20/08/2023 15:37

I wouldn't have found her guilty. I just wouldn't have been able to.

There was a juror like you. Fortunately the judge allowed a majority decision to prevail.

Boomboom22 · 20/08/2023 15:56

I find the hatred and wanting someone dead or to kill themselves more worrying. Prison is for rehab or protecting the public not punishment. Other countries especially European don't approach justice in this way. The baying for blood is weird. Lock her up yes but to then personally wish suffering and agony on another is wrong no matter what.

GardenBirdie · 20/08/2023 15:59

BeenThereDoneThat101 · 20/08/2023 10:07

When someone commits a crime as an adult they, and they alone are responsible for having committed that crime.

But it absolutely is the case that many criminals had disturbed or difficult childhoods. Not all, but enough that it is a natural step to look at any criminal’s upbringing.

Interestingly very little has been said about LL’s childhood either way. Nobody has come out and said that she had a difficult childhood, but equally there’s been no mention of a normal childhood, of her being a model student, there haven’t been teachers and friends’ parents and so on coming out to express their shock at this because she did this or that at school and was this or that kind of person.

I find that odd.

When someone commits a crime we usually hear a lot more about them once the verdict is delivered, be that good or bad. But all we’ve heard about LL is that she had a bedroom with teddybears and posters. It’s as if she never existed before she started killing babies.

So while people say that she seemed entirely normal, actually I think that she seemed entirely characterless. Because we’ve been given 0 insight into any character other than a few pictures of her clubbing.

Probably most people who know her are, like her doctor ‘friend’, trying to steer well clear of being identified publicly. Unless they think she’s innocent, it’s perfectly natural that they wouldn’t want to be associated with her.

BeenThereDoneThat101 · 20/08/2023 16:04

Boomboom22 · 20/08/2023 15:56

I find the hatred and wanting someone dead or to kill themselves more worrying. Prison is for rehab or protecting the public not punishment. Other countries especially European don't approach justice in this way. The baying for blood is weird. Lock her up yes but to then personally wish suffering and agony on another is wrong no matter what.

People certainly aren’t sent to prison to protect them from the public.Plenty of notorious criminals who are under threat from the public when they get out are still let out of prison. In Lucy Letby’s case prison is a punishment, because she will never be rehabilitated.

People like her don’t deserve compassion. She certainly doesn’t know the meaning of the word so why should she experience it?

I don’t necessarily wish for other prisoners to see to her since most of them have equally violent tendencies and would do it for notoriety rather than anything else, but if she ended her own life I certainly wouldn’t shed any tears over it, any more than I did over Fred West or Harold Shipman.

Zonder · 20/08/2023 16:07

@BeenThereDoneThat101 actually @Boomboom22 said protecting the public, not protecting the perpetrator FROM the public.

magicalkitty · 20/08/2023 16:09

Boomboom22 · 20/08/2023 15:56

I find the hatred and wanting someone dead or to kill themselves more worrying. Prison is for rehab or protecting the public not punishment. Other countries especially European don't approach justice in this way. The baying for blood is weird. Lock her up yes but to then personally wish suffering and agony on another is wrong no matter what.

Prison is for punishment. It's just in a more socialised way than it was in the past. Now it's about removing one's liberty rather than subjecting criminals to hard labour, social isolation and deprivation as was common in times gone by.

Cozytoesandtoast00 · 20/08/2023 16:16

Of course the race issue lead to delay in her arrest! I find it naive to believe otherwise. If Lucy was black, institutional and deep rooted racial beliefs would have lead to an earlier investigation.
I have heard and read so many people say 'but she looks so normal' indicating white, blond and middle-class. If she was black, fat and working class she would not have held that element of trust that Lucy had. If you believe otherwise then you are obviously white.
This should not be brushed under the carpet because it does not fit your narrative.

AvocadotoastORahouse · 20/08/2023 16:16

Just at start of thread but @Flute56 I think everyone in the management involved as moved on/retired so absolutely no point in protesting at Countess of Chester now.

If you want to do something, write to your MP to request an overhaul of the NHS management system. It likely won't make a shred of difference but at least you won't be upsetting current staff and patients who have nothing to do with what happened in 2015/2016.

AvocadotoastORahouse · 20/08/2023 16:22

@WhisperingHi I'm not saying Lucy is innocent, at all. But I am saying that if there's more evidence out there, then I want to see it. I'm struggling to see why, if there's more compelling evidence, it wasn't reported and yet less compelling evidence was.

Because papers focus on salacious, high drama, personality centred, soundbite happy bits that they think will sell clicks/views/papers.
Always have, always will.
Hours and hours of "boring" (to them) medical evidence won't get past the editor's cut. But that LL was having an "affair" - get that out on the front page! That's their attitude.

PompomDahlia · 20/08/2023 16:25

@Cozytoesandtoast00 couldn’t agree more. The stats about differences in healthcare workers who are disciplined by ethnicity back that up. It isn’t ‘race baiting’ or any other rubbish terms to point that out