Page 19 | Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

twoandcooplease · 2023-08-19T00:47:10+00:00

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 08:56

I dont understand why there is confusion about why humans tend to see good looking people as good

There have been countless studies about how humans see other humans, how attractive people tend to have more friends, do better at school, do better in jobs, be more attractive to partners etc etc

We are an animal species, a huge amount of our interactions with each other are on a sub concious level and its instinctive in us to seek out or view more positively those who look fit, healthy, symmetrical, happy, confident and 'like us'

In particular in criminal cases, particularly murders like this, generally speaking the perpetrators were 'odd', they nearly always are, they look odd and they act odd and their history is odd. Thats because odd people do odd things, not always murder but generally speaking.

hammie46i · 20/08/2023 08:57

hotpotlover · 20/08/2023 08:52

I don't understand why people keep on bringing up her looks. Are people really that dim? She's not the first blonde, blue-eyed, mildly attractive serial killer and she won't be the last one.

There's a lot of good-looking murderers around!

Thanks for the insult. I don't believe I'm dim (Oxbridge educated). I will share what my thought process is over this.

Human intuition is a thing. I believe it is an evolved ability, especially in women who tend to be the prey rather than predators.

You can often tell who is dangerous. I've avoided danger multiple times in my life through looking into someone's eyes or at someone's behaviour and knowing they're a wrong un. Call it what you want but it's got me out of trouble on various occasions in my life so I'll take that over the opinions of an internet stranger.

Even attractive murderers can have something in their behaviour or eyes that makes you think "that's weird." Many liars and murderers can't help smirking when they're deceiving, for example.

If the jury have the right decision (which I accept they probably do), Lucy Letby was an excellent actress.

user1471505356 · 20/08/2023 08:57

It seems only the doctors had concerns ,were other colleagues nurses alarmed?

itsgettingweird · 20/08/2023 08:59

TooOldForThisNonsense · 20/08/2023 08:26

Those notes she wrote are all very weird just a complete jumble really. I would be surprised if they are the product of a ‘normal” mind. I guess we will hear more tomorrow.

Yes. Those scrawled notes all over one piece of paper certainly give another angle and insight into her mind.

If we consider that maybe her subconscious thoughts spewing out.

If her outside persona was entirely covering an inner turmoil she must have been exhausted. Masking is not easy.

watermeloncougar · 20/08/2023 08:59

@magicalkitty I don't know where you're getting the idea for her motive being she couldn't get a sexual partner/boyfriend.

The one thing everyone who knew her seemed to agree on is that she seemed very ordinary, a typical young woman who had a social circle, enjoyed going out, holidayed with her friends etc. Quite a leap to suggest that a woman in her mid twenties (which she was when these crimes were committed) would be desperately jealous of married couples with kids! She was at the stage of her life where many young people are living a carefree life and not tied down.

Quite possible that there was some emotional attachment to the doctor who's been mentioned but I haven't seen any evidence to suggest what you're saying.

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:00

But to a lot of us LL was clearly “odd”. She was unpopular at school. Didn’t have many friends. Her bedroom and belongings were beyond cutesy, childish, weird for a woman of her age. It does appear she was lovely, unhappy with being an only child and had a perhaps uncomfortably close relationship to overbearing parents. She was obsessed and possibly involved with a married man who she was clearly infatuated with. Her obsessive behaviour in Facebook stalking hundreds of people (not just in this case) a month.

FannyCann · 20/08/2023 09:00

Discussion in the Telegraph of the whole life tariff. She will (if she gets WHOLE life) be only the fourth woman to be thus sentenced. Even Beverly Allitt didn't get whole life and is eligible for parole soon if not already.

Meanwhile a criminologist in Bath wonders if prison is even the right place for her. 🤔🙄
If ever there was an advertisement for NOT sending your child to University of Bath to study criminology that has to be it!

archive.ph/2023.08.19-221219/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/08/19/lucy-letby-guilty-no-parole-what-life-in-prison-is-like/

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 09:01

I thought it was odd that one some of the notes Ive seen she says she will never have children and a family. I didnt understand that, why at her age would she say that?

Was she told she was infertile or something?

Absolutelynotfor2019 · 20/08/2023 09:01

MavisMcMinty · 20/08/2023 02:46

Drugs aren’t controlled because they’re dangerous - e.g. insulin - but because they’re desirable, mind-altering and addictive. Opiates, barbiturates, that kind of thing. At my last Trust you didn’t even need two nurses to give a controlled drug. As a CNS visiting wards I was just handed the keys and invited to give my patients morphine/whatever. As it wasn’t what I was used to I always found someone else to check it with me. Protocols vary from Trust to Trust, but nurses are accountable for every single thing they do. We can on the whole be trusted with drugs.

Nurses have to know the correct dose of every drug in case it’s been wrongly prescribed or dispensed, because we are accountable for our actions and cannot blame the prescribing doctor or dispensing pharmacist - we gave it when we shouldn’t have, entirely our fault. We have to know the side-effects and contraindications of every drug we give, and its reactions with other drugs. And of course many nurses themselves are now prescribers following specialist training.

There are dozens of different drugs on the average medical ward drug trolley. Most/many of them would kill a person at a high enough dose, or in the right (wrong) combination. Nurses could easily kill themselves, colleagues or patients whenever they felt like it, but the overwhelming majority wouldn’t dream of it. I hate having to reassure people of this. The Letbys and Allitts are anomalies, incredibly rare, and always shocking.

Really well explained. I wasn’t quite sure where to start with an explanation.

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:03

I meant to write lonely in my post not lovely.
Re her rants about not having kids it’s likely as she kept seeing friends getting married settled etc then her infatuation/ possible relationship with a married man who was unlikely to leave his own family to have one with her made her feel she’d left it too late to meet someone/ settle down.

monsteramunch · 20/08/2023 09:03

@Giraffe75

The number of perinatal deaths in 2017 and 2018 was higher than in 2015 and 2016, but Lucy Letby was not on the ward in these years

Is this the case? I thought it was reported that the number of deaths on ward stopped being so high when she was removed?

hammie46i · 20/08/2023 09:04

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:00

But to a lot of us LL was clearly “odd”. She was unpopular at school. Didn’t have many friends. Her bedroom and belongings were beyond cutesy, childish, weird for a woman of her age. It does appear she was lovely, unhappy with being an only child and had a perhaps uncomfortably close relationship to overbearing parents. She was obsessed and possibly involved with a married man who she was clearly infatuated with. Her obsessive behaviour in Facebook stalking hundreds of people (not just in this case) a month.

Maybe some of us see ourselves in her then. I wasn't popular at school particularly. Not overly so. I'm hugely introverted and don't have tons of friends simply because I find friendships tiring so I stick to a few good ones.

My parents were overbearing.

I've been infatuated with someone before who had a partner (although would never have acted on it.)

I used to look up ppl on Facebook sometimes out of interest/nosiness (now I am not on Facebook).

I haven't killed anyone or ever wanted to.

If we looked at you, or anyone for signs of things that are 'out of the ordinary' then I'm sure we could find things about you or anyone that don't 100% "fit the norm" especially if it was internet searches or history.

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 09:04

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:00

But to a lot of us LL was clearly “odd”. She was unpopular at school. Didn’t have many friends. Her bedroom and belongings were beyond cutesy, childish, weird for a woman of her age. It does appear she was lovely, unhappy with being an only child and had a perhaps uncomfortably close relationship to overbearing parents. She was obsessed and possibly involved with a married man who she was clearly infatuated with. Her obsessive behaviour in Facebook stalking hundreds of people (not just in this case) a month.

I didnt read about her at school, why was she unpopular, in what way?

I also asked on this and the other thread about the bedroom, it looked like a normal bedroom to me, I saw references to fairy lights on the bed frame and posters with phrases on them, probably half of mumsnet have houses like this

Yes certainly seems if she was stalking people that something was amiss, Im not even sure I would count being infatuated with someone you fancy as being 'odd' either, not on the murder scale level of odd anyway.

TooOldForThisNonsense · 20/08/2023 09:04

monsteramunch · 20/08/2023 09:03

@Giraffe75

The number of perinatal deaths in 2017 and 2018 was higher than in 2015 and 2016, but Lucy Letby was not on the ward in these years

Is this the case? I thought it was reported that the number of deaths on ward stopped being so high when she was removed?

Someone has explained that there is a difference between perinatal and neonatal deaths. So the “scientist” who came up with that stat is not comparing apples with apples

TooOldForThisNonsense · 20/08/2023 09:06

I wondered if the comments about not having children or a family were scrawled when she knew the net was closing in and she was going to be caught for what she’d done

hammie46i · 20/08/2023 09:06

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:03

I meant to write lonely in my post not lovely.
Re her rants about not having kids it’s likely as she kept seeing friends getting married settled etc then her infatuation/ possible relationship with a married man who was unlikely to leave his own family to have one with her made her feel she’d left it too late to meet someone/ settle down.

She was mid 20s. I don't know any mid 20s woman who's fretting about having "left it too late". Mid thirties maybe.

She wrote "I'll never have a family" because she was worried/knew she'd been caught and was going to prison.

FannyCann · 20/08/2023 09:07

Her bedroom and belongings were beyond cutesy, childish, weird for a woman of her age.

Heaven forbid my DD (22) be convicted of something that led her bedroom to be discussed on social media.
The floor is her wardrobe. It's a massive mess. I've given up on trying to do anything about it beyond the occasional rubbish sweep and putting on clean sheets for her from time to time. She still has the ashes of our cat that died years ago on her shelf. She has a small pillow on her bed that is disintegrating that she was given when she was a toddler. Pretty sure there's lots of other incriminating evidence lying around in there too.

(She'll be back to Uni soon and then it will get a clean).

Mustardseed86 · 20/08/2023 09:08

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 08:56

I dont understand why there is confusion about why humans tend to see good looking people as good

There have been countless studies about how humans see other humans, how attractive people tend to have more friends, do better at school, do better in jobs, be more attractive to partners etc etc

We are an animal species, a huge amount of our interactions with each other are on a sub concious level and its instinctive in us to seek out or view more positively those who look fit, healthy, symmetrical, happy, confident and 'like us'

In particular in criminal cases, particularly murders like this, generally speaking the perpetrators were 'odd', they nearly always are, they look odd and they act odd and their history is odd. Thats because odd people do odd things, not always murder but generally speaking.

I agree with this, I think it's why I thought for a long time there must be more to it. It's not the blonde thing, there are plenty of white, blonde middle class people you could imagine doing something nasty. She just looks harmless. You can usually tell a lot from someone's face. But I just think she's a very atypical murderer, immaturity, attention seeking and on some level not seeing those very tiny babies as fully fledged humans.

watermeloncougar · 20/08/2023 09:09

@mollyminniemo but LL was about 25 when these crimes were committed! And if it turns out she committed crimes in her previous jobs, she'd have been even younger!

Some people seem to be assuming she was more like late 30s, was watching friends getting married and having kids all around her and she felt left out. That's simply not the case. Everyone who knows her describes her as very ordinary, nothing to mark her out from her peers, she had a social circle, enjoyed cocktails and going out.

Obviously notes scribbled once she knew she was under investigation about worrying she might never marry and have a family are a reflection of the circumstances that came later. Anyone thinking they might get convicted of murder would think that.

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:10

Her childhood friend who has given interviews saying she is sticking by her has said they were both unpopular and nerds with not many friends.

needmorecoffeeandcake · 20/08/2023 09:10

I have no reason to doubt this verdict but I am left with some questions about the cause of death for some babies. I recall it being said that some had post-mortems. But the air embolisms were not picked up as the cause of death for these little babies. Other causes of death were given. How does this happen and why were the deaths then treated as suspicious? Was it retrospectively then? Baby C already had an X-ray showing air in their stomach at birth. I find it confusing how some of these deaths came to be suspicious after the event.

hammie46i · 20/08/2023 09:11

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:10

Her childhood friend who has given interviews saying she is sticking by her has said they were both unpopular and nerds with not many friends.

So what? So was I. I'm not a murderer.

watermeloncougar · 20/08/2023 09:12

@mollyminniemo yeah the testimony of the one weird friend who is sticking by her.... compared to the accounts of everyone else who knew her and worked with her!

bellac11 · 20/08/2023 09:13

mollyminniemo · 20/08/2023 09:10

Her childhood friend who has given interviews saying she is sticking by her has said they were both unpopular and nerds with not many friends.

Well I think thats probably not a marker for anything to be honest

If she was unpopular because she was a bully, horrible to people, liked hurting people, was manipulative etc etc that would be one thing

But nerd is often code for 'keeps head down, not engaged in bitchy dynamics, hard worker' which one would assume she was all those things if she had ambition to go to university/qualify as a professional etc etc

Flutterbye22 · 20/08/2023 09:15

New to this thread, hi everyone 👋🏽

Need to catch up. Why was she moved from a ward to the office? Does anyone know this?

I wonder what the rationale was for moving her from ward to office and then to ward again.

I think the senior management involved that didn’t listen to the doctors raising concerns ought to all be sacked, and possibly facing legal action themselves.