Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

[twoandcooplease]

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty

Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

And yet people are all like ‘but convictions get over turned all the time’ 🤷🏻‍♀️

Not in criminal cases.

I hope she gets a whole life tariff- she could be dangerous for a very long time. If she changed her name and moved to a different part of the country, it's easy to see her picking up work as a cash in hand unregistered childminder, even fairly well into her 60s, perhaps for a disabled child with special medical needs and parents desperate for help who might easily fall for an air of confidence and competence, a motherly air and a smooth story. Even in her 80s she could be a believeable befriender for very old frail people loving alone, who nobody would be shocked to find dead in their homes.

All very true (& scary!) @powershowerforanhour

I can understand everyone has a different opinion and those who feel she is not guilty at all are as entitled to theirs as anyone. I despise though the condescending tone everyone who thinks this seems to take. They assume, as you do, that people who believe she had a fair trial and that the evidence was enough for the jury to come to the verdicts they did are ignorant to other historic cases, who think the way they do just because they follow the media or whatever.

That's sick.

Wouldn't they keep an eye on her for the rest of her life? Or that naive of me to assume that's what happens to people who are released with new identities.

I'd have thought that it would be a whole life tariff as you say. Beverley Allit will apparently be eligible for parole (after 30 years) if she's ever moved back into prison from hospital. Though LL surpassed her with the number of murders and attempted murders, and she's also a good few years older.

Believe in the verdict. But can anyone explain about why the non-insulin deaths with no post-mortem, initially said to be bowel related, were deemed to be caused by air?

Yes. It looks like she started pretty much as she got in there.

"Wouldn't they keep an eye on her for the rest of her life? Or that naive of me to assume that's what happens to people who are released with new identities."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jon-venables-latest-updates-child-sex-images-indecent-photos-guilty-james-bulger-a8198411.html

Unless they bugged her house, tapped her phone and hacked all her internet devices and had somebody listening in all the time, or parked outside her house to follow her everywhere, she could slip the net long enough to kill people.

Of course it’s worrying and this is one of the reasons I hope she gets a WLO. She has abused her position as a HCP and this could damage public trust in the profession as a whole. It’s beyond despicable what she did. The devastation and trauma in her wake.

Tbh I suspect she may not appeal. She knows she’s done it and she’s bang to rights: I have a feeling the sentencing and psychiatric reports may be illuminating.

Summary of where the NHS managers and executives are now who covered up for Letby and forced the doctors to apologise to her.

CEO Tony Chambers who forced the consultants (with the threat of sanctions) to apologise to Lucy Letby and apologised to her personally - subsequently appointed interim CEO of Queen's and King George Hospitals in East London and then the same post at Royal Cornwall Hospitals, then the same post at Queen Victoria Hospital in Sussex.

Medical Director Ian Harvey who recommended GMC investigations into the consultants subsequently retired to the South of France aged 60 with a £1.8 million pension pot.

Nursing Director Alison Kelly who refused all meetings with the consultants in 2015 demanding an investigation after 5 babies all died on Lucy Letby's shifts got promoted (of course) to deputy CEO.

Karen Rees who bravely stood up for Lucy Letby when all 7 consultant paediatricians demanded Lucy Letby be removed from duty, faced them down and had this famous conversation the day before Lucy Letby again tried to kill a baby:
^For Dr Brearey and his fellow consultants, the deaths of the two triplets were a tipping point. That evening, Dr Brearey says he called duty executive Karen Rees and demanded Letby be taken off duty. She refused.
Dr Brearey says he challenged her about whether she was making this decision against the wishes of seven consultant paediatricians - and asked if she would take responsibility for anything that might happen to other babies the next day. He says Ms Rees replied "yes".^

.Karen Moore (Karen Rees) was of course then in the aftermath of this conversation promoted to associate director of nursing and given awards!

These aren't non clinical managers, this is cultural close the shop style situations that the Met have been accused of

It’s disgusting isn’t it. LL I have no words for of course. But also I have no words for the management.

Opportunistic. Seizing the moment. Wondering who on earth passed all her clinical placement learning outcomes so she could qualify 😬 surely something about her practice must have been amiss.

Of course they get promoted. They always do.

I think she will appeal. I think she believes she can get away with anything with enough looking innocent and bewildered.

I don’t think anything more will be heard from her till 20 years from now when she needs more attention and the only way she can get it, is dragging the past up.

After the appeal* I mean, nothing more will be heard till she needs to feed off her old crimes.

So another query I have and this might be answered somewhere, the threads are a bit overwhelming to be honest,,, but given a large number of children were dying, surely that was above the usual number, and given the top managers were not keen or didnt believe LL was anything to do with it, either through malice or negligence, what did they think the cause was?

Was there an investigation into what was going on, what did they think was going wrong to have so many children die on their ward?

@Justanotherlurker that's absolutely appalling that these individuals can have no moral compass - just keep on taking taking taking their cushy salaries. I'm alright Jack attitude. Awful.

After the salary, can't hack the responsibility that comes with it. Shame on them all who were involved in this case.

Yes that wasn't lost on me either.

Taken off wards. Put in patient risk assessments.

This whole case if fucked up and that's not just the babies being murdered or attempted murder but the whole saga of decisions made around it and how some people would defend LL to the end.

Article in the Times states "Letby would go regularly for coffee with Rees in the year after she had been take. Off the ward and moved to clerical duties".
I find that quite odd. She was a relatively junior nurse. How did they come to be friends? In my experience ward nurses literally have no contact with senior management (nurses) in day to day hospital life. Maybe if they've won an award or something. Even someone looking for opportunities to suck up to management with an eye on future promotion, really paths don't cross. Band five nurses on busy units are just busy getting on with the shift. They don't have the opportunity to make those connections.

There has been talk of munchausens. Please can somebody explain to me what about this case makes you suspect that? I thought Munschausens was when a person pretended to be ill to get attention. Mostly she seems to have flown under the radar.

Apparently she was a bit of a star. Her colleagues said she was a talented NICU nurse with a great future. She was the face of a recruitment campaign and won an award shortly after qualifying. It’s quite possible management had talent spotted her, that would explain their awareness of her.

By proxy is when you harm others/your children

Its called fabricated illness now and is so difficult to prove when its parents doing it to their children or seeking diagnoses for various illnesses and disorders

I dont know about this case

Didnt Beverley Allit have that?

Aah thanks @bellac11