Page 15 | Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

twoandcooplease · 2023-08-19T00:47:10+00:00

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

Anotherchristianmama · 19/08/2023 21:24

ThereIbledit · 19/08/2023 21:18

There has been talk of munchausens. Please can somebody explain to me what about this case makes you suspect that? I thought Munschausens was when a person pretended to be ill to get attention. Mostly she seems to have flown under the radar.

There's a version called Munchausens by Proxy where someone makes someone in their care ill to get attention. (I think it's actually called something else now though)

Lemieux7 · 19/08/2023 21:25

It's called factitious disorder and, again - it's just another facet of psychopathy.

The person sees people as objects so they use them to get attention.

Lemieux7 · 19/08/2023 21:26

FannyCann · 19/08/2023 21:28

It's called "Fabricated or induced illness" now.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/fabricated-or-induced-illness/overview/

I think Factitious Disorder may be the American version?

reesewithoutaspoon · 19/08/2023 21:29

Yep allit was MBP with previous incidences of harming herself for attention and reports that she was always a bit odd.

letby seems more psychopath/sociopath. She had no empathy, she didn't see these babies as anything other than tools to use to gain whatever it was she was after, whether it was attention, or plaudits for being a great nurse who saved babies or sympathy or whatever her twisted mind was seeking.

PickledMuffin · 19/08/2023 21:31

@BigMandsTattooPortfolio and @Boudicasbeard - i've seen buts about the Bain case, but what are the actual details? what made them reconsider David's case?

PickledMuffin · 19/08/2023 21:32

Bain not buts! autocorrect fail!

YoSof · 19/08/2023 21:35

Just catching up on last nights Panorama.

Those poor consultants, Dr Stephen Brearey especially looked absolutely broken.

EssexMan55 · 19/08/2023 21:43

Zonder · 19/08/2023 06:34

I'm amazed at the number of pp saying they don't think there's enough evidence, or that the evidence doesn't seem conclusive, despite either posters pointing out we don't have access to the entire package of evidence given to the jurors over months.

I know mistakes can be made but it isn't likely given the months and volume of evidence here.

Actually a number of scientists have claimed that the experts were doctors speculating on science that they have no expertise in. They allege their testimonies are wrong to the point they would never get what they claimed published in a peer reviewed science journal.

EssexMan55 · 19/08/2023 21:45

WhisperingHi · 19/08/2023 07:25

@Zonder if there's more evidence, then id like to see it. If like to know why it was reported on and I'd like to use my own brain to decide how I feel about it.

I appreciate other people have their own views about the case and her conviction and I respect that. Can you not do the same?

They invite the public into courts and report on proceedings because it's in the public's interest. Well, it's also in our interests to know that justice has been served correctly. Therefore ALL of the evidence should be made available and reporters should at least report the most significant evidence.

Therefore I'm struggling to see why pertinent information and evidence is still being kept from the public. Is it? Where is it?

https://rexvlucyletby2023.com/

Zonder · 19/08/2023 21:50

EssexMan55 · 19/08/2023 21:43

Actually a number of scientists have claimed that the experts were doctors speculating on science that they have no expertise in. They allege their testimonies are wrong to the point they would never get what they claimed published in a peer reviewed science journal.

Show quote history

When you say scientists you seem to mean some random anonymous people who have created a website just re LL. Not sure I'd trust that over the actual doctors talking about clinical stuff they deal with professionally.

XelaM · 19/08/2023 21:50

I don't understand people saying there's not enough evidence. Wasn't there clear evidence one of the twins was injected with insulin whilst in her care (a day after his twin brother died in her care)? She was (the only nurse) involved in all 25 unexplained deaths/near deaths of the babies

EssexMan55 · 19/08/2023 21:52

Zonder · 19/08/2023 21:50

When you say scientists you seem to mean some random anonymous people who have created a website just re LL. Not sure I'd trust that over the actual doctors talking about clinical stuff they deal with professionally.

Show quote history

They don’t say who they are. Which certainly reduces their credibility.

Zonder · 19/08/2023 21:55

Yes, very much so.

Plus the BBC reports that the main person questioning the science of the doctors is LLs barrister. Even he admits they are using actual medical research papers, although he calls them mediocre. I'd take the doctors over a barrister.

BIossomtoes · 19/08/2023 21:55

Oh there are two of those bollocks websites now. Bloody attention seeking leeches.

DrRuthGalloway · 19/08/2023 21:59

I am a psychologist and generally good at perceiving reasons driving behaviours. I am not a criminologist and have not been involved in the Letby case, but I can see a possible "motive" having read about the case and watched Panorama. It is just a theory.

I don't think "killing the babies" was the ultimate purpose of the behaviour.

Lucy had a very close relationship with her parents, had a difficult delivery and was obviously fed the idea that the heroic nurses and doctors saved her life. She wanted to be a nurse from childhood.

I think she wanted to be a hero. She wanted to be remembered by parents as the exceptionally heroic nurse who raised the alarm about their baby's condition, went out of her way to sit with them, comfort them, write them cards, make memory boxes. She reflected how tragic the situations were with colleagues in her texts, again seeking affirmation of how selfless, marvellous and heroic she was, carrying on regardless despite being in such sad situations. The way she seems to have especially targeted multiple births, IVF cases reinforce this. She can get affirmation about how terribly sad the situations were. I think she really didn't see the babies as people, just as disposable pawns in her quest for heroism and adulation. It's incredibly twisted thinking.

So I guess a kind of FII, but not about medical attention directly, but about wanting to be thought marvellous, selfless, coping beyond the call of duty...just like the nurses she has always been told saved her life at birth. Maybe?

YoSof · 19/08/2023 22:00

DrRuthGalloway · 19/08/2023 21:59

I am a psychologist and generally good at perceiving reasons driving behaviours. I am not a criminologist and have not been involved in the Letby case, but I can see a possible "motive" having read about the case and watched Panorama. It is just a theory.

I don't think "killing the babies" was the ultimate purpose of the behaviour.

Lucy had a very close relationship with her parents, had a difficult delivery and was obviously fed the idea that the heroic nurses and doctors saved her life. She wanted to be a nurse from childhood.

I think she wanted to be a hero. She wanted to be remembered by parents as the exceptionally heroic nurse who raised the alarm about their baby's condition, went out of her way to sit with them, comfort them, write them cards, make memory boxes. She reflected how tragic the situations were with colleagues in her texts, again seeking affirmation of how selfless, marvellous and heroic she was, carrying on regardless despite being in such sad situations. The way she seems to have especially targeted multiple births, IVF cases reinforce this. She can get affirmation about how terribly sad the situations were. I think she really didn't see the babies as people, just as disposable pawns in her quest for heroism and adulation. It's incredibly twisted thinking.

So I guess a kind of FII, but not about medical attention directly, but about wanting to be thought marvellous, selfless, coping beyond the call of duty...just like the nurses she has always been told saved her life at birth. Maybe?

I think that makes a lot of sense.

Lemieux7 · 19/08/2023 22:03

FannyCann · 19/08/2023 21:28

It's called "Fabricated or induced illness" now.

www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/fabricated-or-induced-illness/overview/

I think Factitious Disorder may be the American version?

Ah, ok.

Ineedasitdown · 19/08/2023 22:07

It’s interesting that so many people are trying to find an explanation as to why. I understand that motivation. However, I disagree. What makes one person with a particular background murderous and others with similar background not murderous.

Some people are evil. There is no explanation for it. They walk amongst us and we don’t spot them. That is what is more frightening. There is no comforting explanation for us.

diamondinaruff · 19/08/2023 22:08

It's a god complex and attention seeking at its absolute worst

She liked the adoration and the drama

The drama was more important than the lives of the children she was ,want to be caring for . It's a form of attention seeking.

jenbj · 19/08/2023 22:19

DrRuthGalloway · 19/08/2023 21:59

I am a psychologist and generally good at perceiving reasons driving behaviours. I am not a criminologist and have not been involved in the Letby case, but I can see a possible "motive" having read about the case and watched Panorama. It is just a theory.

I don't think "killing the babies" was the ultimate purpose of the behaviour.

Lucy had a very close relationship with her parents, had a difficult delivery and was obviously fed the idea that the heroic nurses and doctors saved her life. She wanted to be a nurse from childhood.

I think she wanted to be a hero. She wanted to be remembered by parents as the exceptionally heroic nurse who raised the alarm about their baby's condition, went out of her way to sit with them, comfort them, write them cards, make memory boxes. She reflected how tragic the situations were with colleagues in her texts, again seeking affirmation of how selfless, marvellous and heroic she was, carrying on regardless despite being in such sad situations. The way she seems to have especially targeted multiple births, IVF cases reinforce this. She can get affirmation about how terribly sad the situations were. I think she really didn't see the babies as people, just as disposable pawns in her quest for heroism and adulation. It's incredibly twisted thinking.

So I guess a kind of FII, but not about medical attention directly, but about wanting to be thought marvellous, selfless, coping beyond the call of duty...just like the nurses she has always been told saved her life at birth. Maybe?

How do you know she had a difficult delivery?

Flapjacker48 · 19/08/2023 22:20

@jenbj Her close friend told this to a BBC journalist.

reesewithoutaspoon · 19/08/2023 22:20

DrRuthGalloway · 19/08/2023 21:59

I am a psychologist and generally good at perceiving reasons driving behaviours. I am not a criminologist and have not been involved in the Letby case, but I can see a possible "motive" having read about the case and watched Panorama. It is just a theory.

I don't think "killing the babies" was the ultimate purpose of the behaviour.

Lucy had a very close relationship with her parents, had a difficult delivery and was obviously fed the idea that the heroic nurses and doctors saved her life. She wanted to be a nurse from childhood.

I think she wanted to be a hero. She wanted to be remembered by parents as the exceptionally heroic nurse who raised the alarm about their baby's condition, went out of her way to sit with them, comfort them, write them cards, make memory boxes. She reflected how tragic the situations were with colleagues in her texts, again seeking affirmation of how selfless, marvellous and heroic she was, carrying on regardless despite being in such sad situations. The way she seems to have especially targeted multiple births, IVF cases reinforce this. She can get affirmation about how terribly sad the situations were. I think she really didn't see the babies as people, just as disposable pawns in her quest for heroism and adulation. It's incredibly twisted thinking.

So I guess a kind of FII, but not about medical attention directly, but about wanting to be thought marvellous, selfless, coping beyond the call of duty...just like the nurses she has always been told saved her life at birth. Maybe?

I agree with you
She deliberately targeted high-emotion targets. The twins, triplets, IVF babies, fathers' day, their expected birthdate.
To lose a baby is tragic, but to lose all three triplets is beyond tragedy, she inserted herself into that tragedy She was the star of the Lucy Letby show, the hero.
The fact she came in on her days off to the unit, worked excessive shifts, and stayed behind after her shifts. She wanted to be seen as the ultra-caring nurse, the selfless angel. these babies, they were just tools to achieve what she really wanted which was the adulation and attention.
it was her whole persona.

jenbj · 19/08/2023 22:23

Flapjacker48 · 19/08/2023 22:20

@jenbj Her close friend told this to a BBC journalist.

Thanks. I hadn't read that.

MavisMcMinty · 19/08/2023 22:27

Yes, I agree. Her work was her life, although not in a healthy way (is it ever healthy to live for your work?). It was her identity, and as a former (adult) ICU nurse I can tell you there is enormous love and admiration for us and what we do for patients and their families, it is truly one-to-one care and we were always inundated with gifts and donations and wonderful thank you cards and letters, it is very rewarding, very affirming.