Lucy Letby guilty - part 2

[twoandcooplease]

Thread 1 Lucy Letby guilty www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875009-lucy-letby-guilty

Just in case anyone wants to keep the conversation going

Surely management blocking any investigation of potential murders on the ward and facilitating the career of the suspected murderer (IIRC, Letby was about to resume nursing on the neo-natal ward around the time she was first arrested) just so they could cover up a catastrophic failure in their job constitutes corporate manslaughter. Medical staff suspected babies were being murdered and the hospital management preferred the murders to continue rather than suffer professional embarrassment. They need to pay.

As for the evidence, one of the biggest facts against Letby is the suspicious deaths stopping when she was on holiday or moved to an admin role.

I thought it was. If not, wouldn't her knee surgery have been on the news? Maybe I'm wrong.

@EsmaCannonball the other thing was that the consultants managed to get her changed from night shifts (when the majority of the collapses occurred) to day shifts. The collapses then started occurring during the day time (again during her shifts or when she was on the unit doing admin/visiting).

Totally agree.
It makes a mockery of any corporate whistleblowing policy, compliance, and ethics before you even get to the fact that there was life and death involved.

The managers failed to “imagine the unimaginable”.

The man she may or not have had an affair with isn't on trial here. He gave evidence for the prosecution and there is no suggestion he lied in court. If he did have an affair with her then that's between him and his wife. It's not a crime and he's done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law. Like others who befriended her he's probably horrified that he got so close to a child killer.

The hospital management knew that, even if no crime had occurred, a police investigation would make damaging the hospital's reputation and their own careers a certainty. They gambled that certainty against the hope that seven consultants were in the wrong, even though babies would be murdered if the risky bet didn't come off. It's absolutely disgraceful and terrifying what these people will do to protect their cushy jobs.

I actually just logged on here to ask a very similar question! Does anyone know when she started working on the nicu v when the killings started?

They’ve started investigating her earlier employment history for this very reason.

Not remotely the same.

But FWIW I’m not entirely convinced that all cases where a verdict is overturned are because there has been a miscarriage of justice.

In Lucia’s case the defence were able to question the evidence based on the person she had allegedly confessed to withdrawing their testimony.

But I can think of criminals who have had their conditions overturned who I am absolutely certain still committed the crimes they were originally convicted of, but got lucky.

I guess that would then tie in with when the killings started if she was only qual on that ward In 2015 if that is correct

A programme I saw said she passed some course in 2015 which then gave her access to work with the sickest babies.

Pure supposition on my part but I reckon LL was trying to get into senior management. An article today said she used to regularly go for coffees with Karen Lees in the year after she’d been taken off the ward. Lees was then head of nursing. Alison Kelly (then director of nursing) was also fond of LL, and Tony Chambers had a nursing background. They all kept LL in neonatal for as long as possible & bullied consultants to ‘draw a line’ under their urgent calls for action / asked them to apologise to LL etc. It seems senior management were really well paid. It would also make sense from reports of LL going in early, leaving late, doing extra shifts & sucking up to Lees.

I find it just unbelievable that when she was put on administration duties it was regarding PATIENT SAFETY.

The fucking irony.

I feel for all the families, I really do. God knows how you begin to put your life back together after something like this.

Thanks for the replies about the doctor (sorry thought he was a consultant).

Witnesses don't usually get to dictate terms do they? They're just subpoenaed and obliged to give evidence. Many an innocent witness's dirty laundry has been aired in the name of Justice.

I don't even think this is even the right place to put this, but am so scared by this, dc2has had multiple admissions since being born and have always trusted staff to look after them while I showered or slept, this has really unnerved me, despite being an AHP.

For people asking about the number of cases this is Dr Dewi Evans one of the reviewers:

He was asked to investigate 33 cases in total, with two insulin cases later.
He said there were two babies were born in unsurvivable conditions, with obvious medical diagnoses.
He said: "The name Lucy Letby meant nothing to me. I didn't know the staff.
"I was the easiest physician and the most difficult. I was a blank sheet of paper. I had no idea and relied entirely on the evidence I could see from the clinical notes and applying my clinical experience and forming an opinion to the cause."

I don’t think we have subpoenas in this country, do we?

we do have subpoenas

Same - it’s a real worry and anxiety inducing. If it helps, if I feel too overwhelmed I try and tell myself matter of factly that the majority of the nhs trusts are good people and are there to help. LL is an extreme and hopefully and exceptional. Obviously it’s good to question anything that doesn’t feel right.
Sorry that your dc has been in and out of hospital Xx

Thanks for confirming

I would like to point out that a conviction being overturned is no proof of innocence. Just look at the case of David Cullen Bain in New Zealand. The weight of evidence in court trails and in the court of public opinion is very different and unless you have reviewed all the evidence and testimony then it is impossible to say.

The Bain family murders are a cautionary tale about what happens when justice crusaders who believe they know better than the judicial system based in newspaper reports and gut feelings get involved in murder cases.

David Cullen Bain murdered his parents and three siblings and walked free because of some misguided crusade against the police. An over turn conviction just means that evidence was initially mismanaged, not that someone is innocent.

People banging the drum about a retrial might want to remember that. Getting someone off on a technicality is not a victory.

Oh the Bain case - I agree. I have little doubt he’s guilty and it’s a travesty that he walked away a free man.