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Not only did Lucy Letby kill and badly hurt babies…

803 replies

determinedtomakethiswork · 18/08/2023 22:23

She also prepared the memory boxes for parents of the dead children. Can you imagine having a memory box with photos and footprints of your dead child which had been taken by his or her merger?

That goes way beyond the murder. I just don't know how the families are coping.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
Efacsen · 20/08/2023 07:40

@JoyApple father stayed overnight because LL had been on holiday with her parents in Torquay and he had driven her home to Chester

Don't know anything about him being influential or not - he is/was employed in selling radiators

pickledandpuzzled · 20/08/2023 07:42

@GCWorkNightmare " She knows that the horror of her birth is one of the reasons she is an only. She knows it’s the reason I can’t ride a bike due to the damage done to me. She knows it’s the reason we couldn’t establish breastfeeding and I expressed milk for her instead. Having her impacted on and changed me. I’m
assuming that being open about it won’t produce a serial killer. 😬"

Do you make sure she realises that botched medical intervention or an accident is the cause, not her?

Plenty of women on here grew up being told they re the reason their mother has no career/lives in poverty/stayed with a violent partner/was left by a wonderful man/lost her figure etc etc.

I didn't tell mine it was tricky until they were near enough adults.
I think we can easily scare dc with feelings of their own fragility or the negative impact their birth had on their mum.

I'm sure you are handling it sensitively. We don't know if Lucy's mum did or not.

If it becomes a major family narrative, the defining moment, the most interesting thing about them... you can see why someone might get a bit twisted by it.

I still remember the ghoulish relish my GM took in describing a difficult wartime labour while I was pregnant. It was truly ridiculous so I didn't get scared by it (the baby's ear was stuck to the womb), but it was a shockingly inappropriate story to share with a first time pregnant woman!

concernedmumhelp · 20/08/2023 07:50

JoyApple · 20/08/2023 07:13

This was very interesting.

From all the people I know closely, there is one person (ex-friend) who fits some of what you've described. If someone told me she had done something like this, I wouldn't be too surprised. Everything is about her and her personal needs, and she will trample on others along the way and has to be the hero and center of attention. The complete absence of empathy is very jarring, especially in a woman.

@C0NNIE you seem to be related to Boris Johnson

ButterCrackers · 20/08/2023 08:06

pickledandpuzzled · 20/08/2023 07:42

@GCWorkNightmare " She knows that the horror of her birth is one of the reasons she is an only. She knows it’s the reason I can’t ride a bike due to the damage done to me. She knows it’s the reason we couldn’t establish breastfeeding and I expressed milk for her instead. Having her impacted on and changed me. I’m
assuming that being open about it won’t produce a serial killer. 😬"

Do you make sure she realises that botched medical intervention or an accident is the cause, not her?

Plenty of women on here grew up being told they re the reason their mother has no career/lives in poverty/stayed with a violent partner/was left by a wonderful man/lost her figure etc etc.

I didn't tell mine it was tricky until they were near enough adults.
I think we can easily scare dc with feelings of their own fragility or the negative impact their birth had on their mum.

I'm sure you are handling it sensitively. We don't know if Lucy's mum did or not.

If it becomes a major family narrative, the defining moment, the most interesting thing about them... you can see why someone might get a bit twisted by it.

I still remember the ghoulish relish my GM took in describing a difficult wartime labour while I was pregnant. It was truly ridiculous so I didn't get scared by it (the baby's ear was stuck to the womb), but it was a shockingly inappropriate story to share with a first time pregnant woman!

There’s no excuse possible for being a baby murderer . The part where you say “might get twisted” / just no. No excuse possible. A reason for being a baby murderer? no reason is possible imho because it’s pure evil to do such an act.

JanieEyre · 20/08/2023 08:27

Princessfuckingpeach · 20/08/2023 03:02

I wonder how nobody got her outside of work if the staff all suspected.

Lucy letby is very fucking lucky she didn't have some unhinged freak colleague like me (or my sister who is much more explosive than i) or some of my other BPD friends around her, one of my BPD associates attacked a local man for CP images found because he had a suspended sentence, same girl found out someone she knew purposely and severely hurt a dog and simply knocked on this person's door and dragged them outside their home to assault them. This woman doesn't drink or do drugs, she's a fitness freak, but she's just not capable to seeing no justice for victims.
LL has ridden a wave of luck I hope will crash now and her life on earth is a devastating as it can be until she's in hell.

Not condoning violence btw, just shocked a baby killer was able to carry on when people knew.

Also not blaming anyone who didn't use vigilante behaviour BTW, absolutely not, again, just surprised.

I do hope you reported your "friend" to the police for her criminal assaults? That's the sort of behaviour that leads to innocent people being targeted.

GCWorkNightmare · 20/08/2023 08:29

pickledandpuzzled · 20/08/2023 07:42

@GCWorkNightmare " She knows that the horror of her birth is one of the reasons she is an only. She knows it’s the reason I can’t ride a bike due to the damage done to me. She knows it’s the reason we couldn’t establish breastfeeding and I expressed milk for her instead. Having her impacted on and changed me. I’m
assuming that being open about it won’t produce a serial killer. 😬"

Do you make sure she realises that botched medical intervention or an accident is the cause, not her?

Plenty of women on here grew up being told they re the reason their mother has no career/lives in poverty/stayed with a violent partner/was left by a wonderful man/lost her figure etc etc.

I didn't tell mine it was tricky until they were near enough adults.
I think we can easily scare dc with feelings of their own fragility or the negative impact their birth had on their mum.

I'm sure you are handling it sensitively. We don't know if Lucy's mum did or not.

If it becomes a major family narrative, the defining moment, the most interesting thing about them... you can see why someone might get a bit twisted by it.

I still remember the ghoulish relish my GM took in describing a difficult wartime labour while I was pregnant. It was truly ridiculous so I didn't get scared by it (the baby's ear was stuck to the womb), but it was a shockingly inappropriate story to share with a first time pregnant woman!

100%. She knows I wouldn’t be without her for the world. She knows we were both 2 weeks late and both got stuck due to the shape of our mums’ pelvises - a great lesson in genetics. She jokes that if they hadn’t pulled her out she would probably still be in there. 😂

DrasticAction · 20/08/2023 08:58

@pickledandpuzzled interesting points re her birth defining her and being the man narrative story.

However I disagree on women not being able to share gruesome birth stories (not with young dc).
I don't think enough women do go into labour knowing what can go wrong and just how horrific the pain and issues can be.

Alstro · 20/08/2023 08:59

SammyScrounge · 20/08/2023 02:40

I support whole life terms where appropriate but never death penalty.

DrasticAction · 20/08/2023 09:00

@LizzieSiddal

To be fair too them it seems there were two investigation before by medics.

How did medics not see fhe raised insulin etc and note the letby connection?

LizzieSiddal · 20/08/2023 09:04

@DrasticAction How did medics not see fhe raised insulin etc and note the letby connection?

The 7 consultants working on the ward did see it but no one would listen to them.

DrasticAction · 20/08/2023 09:16

@LizzieSiddal I mean the medics investigating. There were 2 investigation by places like royal college of peadatrican

Hohohogreenjennie · 20/08/2023 09:24

DrasticAction · 20/08/2023 09:00

@LizzieSiddal

To be fair too them it seems there were two investigation before by medics.

How did medics not see fhe raised insulin etc and note the letby connection?

In the trial they said the blood results took ages to come back so it wasn’t noticed as quickly.

And in the Panorama doc the doctor said the junior doctor who looked at the results didn’t notice/overlooked the insulin level. Perhaps because they didn’t know they were looking for it, if you know what I mean.

I can’t remember which insulin cases these were referring to though.

DrasticAction · 20/08/2023 09:28

That's astounding isn't it. Stuff like blood results is key, basic stuff.

I think if such an internal medical investigation can't understand what it's looking like first then it's not fit for purpose.

If medics investigating Cant see fhe relavant of that and miss that, they can't be trusted.

Hohohogreenjennie · 20/08/2023 09:30

LizzieSiddal · 20/08/2023 09:04

@DrasticAction How did medics not see fhe raised insulin etc and note the letby connection?

The 7 consultants working on the ward did see it but no one would listen to them.

I don’t think the 7 consultants noticed/reported this either.

I remember part of the prosecution’s evidence that it wasn’t a conspiracy to cover up their failings and blame LL (which was her defence) was that the doctor’s missed the insulin cases as part of their concerns. And the insulin cases were the strongest part of the evidence of the trial (they were two of the three charges that the jury unanimously agreed guilty on). So they highlighted that if that was the case the concerned doctor’s missed the most compelling evidence to have her suspected of foul play and therefore it couldn’t be a conspiracy and she had to have done it.

LizzieSiddal · 20/08/2023 09:32

@DrasticAction I mean the medics investigating. There were 2 investigation by places like royal college of peadatrican

Apologies. Re the LL connection, I’ve just read in The Guardian ”However, none of these reviews were tasked with investigating whether Letby had harmed the babies in her care.”
This is astounding considering 7 consultants had said repeatedly that they were very concerned about LL always being around these babies just before their deaths/injuries, plus two consultants were very concerned about her reactions/behaviour after these babies had died.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/20/hospital-chief-claims-he-acted-promptly-to-move-letby-off-ward

Hospital chief claims he acted ‘promptly’ to move Letby off ward

Tony Chambers says he was not aware of serious concerns being raised until June 2016 – a year after the nurse was linked to a series of unusual infant deaths

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/20/hospital-chief-claims-he-acted-promptly-to-move-letby-off-ward

TheSkull · 20/08/2023 09:46

Chickentikka567 · 19/08/2023 14:38

Not necessarily. It doesn't mean she thinks her daughter did it, she probably just feels such guilt at her daughter going to prison for likely the rest of her life.

True but how did she know her daughter had done anything? Apparently she said “take me, I did it”. Did what exactly seeing as she had no idea of any crime. Why assume your daughter had done anything. Surely the first thing you’d ask is “what’s going on? What is she meant to have done?” Bizarre behaviour

SomethingSmellsOffHere · 20/08/2023 09:48

I read or heard in the documentary that the police wouldn’t have taken it seriously at first as the hospital management would have portrayed it as consultants picking on a nurse, and they would have ended up being chewed up by the GMC.

The management of that hospital at the time need to be jailed too.

TheSkull · 20/08/2023 09:51

TheaBrandt · 19/08/2023 16:35

Why tell her all that ? Sorry I think that’s awful. I don’t think a child needs to know. Could be psychologically damaging. As a parent your job is to protect a child not rub their nose in how damaging their own birth was.

My point entirely

Hohohogreenjennie · 20/08/2023 09:53

I can’t find the court transcript/daily report about how the main consultants didn’t know about the insulin readings but I’ve found this.

https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/national/23732539.two-insulin-poisonings-not-flagged-medics-letby-concerns-trial-heard/

So with child F it was flagged and noticed (as it confused them) but it doesn’t look like it was acted on as they had stabilised and were at a different hospital. Child L seems to be the one that was overlooked and nothing acted upon because they were discharged home. The results took a long time to come back because they weren’t tested at Countess of Chester path labs, it had to go to the Royal Liverpool’s lab.

Two insulin poisonings not flagged up to medics with Letby concerns, trial heard

Consultant Dr John Gibbs told the court ‘we didn’t have the full picture’.

https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/national/23732539.two-insulin-poisonings-not-flagged-medics-letby-concerns-trial-heard/

RedToothBrush · 20/08/2023 10:04

Shaun Lintern AT shaunlintern
INVESTIGATION: How #LucyLetby - Britain's worst child killer - was promised a role at Alder Hey Children's Hospital by managers who dismissed fears she was a killer.

The Sunday Times has the definitive story of how she almost got away with murder

After successfully persuading the Countess of Chester Hospital that she was being victimised by doctors, managers offered her support for a masters degree or training as an advanced nurse. Letby had a 'victim statement' read to the trust board 2/7

The Sunday Times has seen the grievance report into her case that details how managers wanted to "protect her from allegations" as well as board minutes, emails and previously unseen evidence showing how the trust board was misled and turned against doctors 3/7

The reports reveal how doctors had a "drawer of doom" linking Letby to baby deaths - which had increased 400% on the year before.

In May 2016 one dr told a manager: “You are harbouring a murderer.” It was a year before the police were called 4/7

Medical director Ian Harvey told the grievance investigation the executive team felt strongly that if they raised concerns with the police without foundation, Letby would have been arrested which would have resulted in a "bomb-site" for the trust to manage. 5/7

Chief executive Tony Chambers met with Letby and her parents in December 2016 and apologised for how she had been treated. He told them the doctors "would be dealt with"

The Sunday Times can reveal he resigned after agreeing a non-disclosure agreement with the trust. 6/7

‘Harbouring a murderer’ - The files that show how #LucyLetby was treated as a victim by NHS managers.

Read the full investigation in The Sunday Times: 7/7
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lucy-letby-files-nurse-hospital-evidence-rkxchgqh9
Revealed: the files that show how Lucy Letby was treated as a victim
exclusive
When doctors warned that she might be a killer, hospital bosses took her side — offering to support her with a master’s degree and find her a role at a top children’s hospital. This is the inside story

Sadly I don't have a share token.

This story is very much in contrast to the Guardian one above which says the hospital executive acted promptly to get Letby off the ward.

If you are familiar with who Shaun Lintern is, you should be. He's the journalist who has forged his career on exposing many issues within the NHS most notably the North Staffs Scandal and the Telford maternity scandal.

Revealed: the files that show how Lucy Letby was treated as a victim

Lucy Letby sat with her parents in a meeting with senior managers at the Countess of Chester Hospital, where she worked, waiting patiently for an apology. She h

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lucy-letby-files-nurse-hospital-evidence-rkxchgqh9

Hohohogreenjennie · 20/08/2023 10:04

And forgot to add that the results weren’t seen by or reported to the consultants so they were never aware of the insulin cases until much later. So when LL said there was a conspiracy by the doctors to blame her for their failings, if this was the case the doctors missed the most damning evidence against her.

RedToothBrush · 20/08/2023 10:06

If Tony Chambers says there was nothing to see here , we acted promptly, why did he leave the trust after signing a non-disclosure agreement?

RedToothBrush · 20/08/2023 10:08

Fwiw even Shaun Lintern is saying he thinks it's weird her parents were at these meetings with the hospital management.