Lucy Letby guilty

[BarelyLiterate]

Lucy Letby has been convicted of the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of six more.

My thoughts are with the families of the victims.

She didn't appear for the verdict because she's lost control of the narrative.

Quite! Oh but they've listened to a podcast so they know better than the jury of 10 months

Some of these comments.

I think that some sociopaths seek out jobs like this and put themselves in positions where they can end someone's life.

Thankfully it's rare.

Isn't she in a hospital for the criminally insane?

I think one of the most frustrating parts of the trial for me, was the fact that almost everything was in retrospect. They took past deaths and collapses and from them created a picture of what happened. Now, I totally understand that this is all they could do. They weren't afforded the ability to investigate during the incidences. And so this isn't to say that they got it wrong, it may be right.

But the problem with using 'evidence' that has passed is that it's all too easy to make the evidence fit the crime and create a narrative that "fits". The hospital were incentived to make it seem like an intentional, solo act that no one could possibly detect at the time. Because that puts all the blame on Lucy and none on the hospital.

It's the same with the documentaries and the witnesses coming forwards now. They're backing up the jury's decision. Had the jury gone with not guilty, I suspect they'd have not released any of the statements and documentaries they have. Those leaning towards guilty may feel more inclined to start thinking 'perhaps she is innocent after all', in the same way that those who thought she was guilty are now very dismissive of people who still have some doubts.

This is why situations that involve safeguarding and vulnerable people should have tight processes in place. Access to medications should be monitored. CCTV should be in place. Concerns raised by colleagues should be investigated immediately and risk assessments should be utilised and err on the side of risk adverse. It shouldn't have taken two years to arrest her and 5 years to get to court. As others have said, there's some major lessons to be learned (although I doubt much will change).

@DojaPhat
I can bet every single thing I own including my house on why that was your thought process.

I'll bite - tell me?
I really didn't want it to be true

I too feel sorry for the friend. She must have felt so sure that her friend was innocent that she was willing to appear on TV. Once the verdict was known I think the BBC should have taken her interview out of the documentary because she is now in danger. She must be reeling after that verdict and after seeing the whole documentary.

for me the fact that Letby was the only nurse present for every single baby death is proof enough. I can't argue with that, I just can't.

Does anyone have a link to information about the "affair" with the doctor? I would like to read that.

He wasn't a consultant, he was a registrar.

And unlike Dr Brearey/Dr Jayaram etc he wasn't there from the beginning so he didn't have the full picture. He joined the unit in autumn 2015 (several months after Lucy Letby had started murdering babies) and he doesn't appear to have been involved in any of the cases until Baby L, which is when he's first called to give evidence.

Lucy Letby also went for drinks and days out with other members of the neonatal unit after her suspension. He wasn't the only one to stick by her.

Apologies gor the daily mail link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12286225/amp/Lucy-Letby-trial-Killer-nurse-created-crisis-situations-attention-married-registrar.html

I wonder if there was a friendship/history between one of the hospital bosses and Letby's father? Which might also explain his presence in a mediation meeting involving her?

The hospital's response was inexplicable. The fact that they protected her (a fairly junior nurse) against numerous senior consultants who persistently raised concerns about her.

"One thing I find strange is, why didn't Lucy use insulin more often? And why didn't she use enough insulin to be successful each time?"

Possibly to cover her tracks. If the occasional baby that was very ill and had signs of sepsis crashed with a very low blood glucose it wouldn't ring alarm bells quickly but if lots babies that had been doing well and had no other signs of sepsis (or other problems that cause low blood glucose) keeled over suddenly with low bg, it would feel wrong and everyone would focus on that common theme of the cluster of deaths and collapses.
"hypoglycemia...causes....sepsis?...but no other signs of it...insulin...but not possible to do by accident....SHIT! ???Beverley Allitt???" would likely have floated into somebody's mind in the middle of the night.

I thought he was much older than her, so surely a consultant if in his 50s rather than a registrar.

I hope they are. Absolutely disgusting the way they didn't even investigate and it seems the consultants who raised concerns were threatened with being reported to the GMC if they didn't shut up.
The senior management did issue apologises but they sounded totally fake
How can they claim to have cared about the babies and families after the way they behaved?
I cried listening to the parents talking tonight.
LL is evil through and through but senior management need to be investigated too

Also, if she is a psychopath with impulsive traits, maybe they weren't all planned with a carefully timed visit to the insulin fridge. Maybe sometimes she just happened to be alone with a baby, and looked down at an empty syringe in her hand that she'd given the baby's real meds with, and maybe she was feeling godlike that day, or she reckoned Jane Doe the nursing student had looked at her funny in the canteen earlier and put her in a bad mood, and she thought "I'll do one now" and drew up air in the syringe, and just did it with no more than 5 seconds between thought and action.

I just noticed this thread is almost full so I have made a new one if anyone wants to keep the conversation going

Lucy Letby guilty - part 2 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4875438-lucy-letby-guilty-part-2

What a bad-tempered and ignorant post. Did writing that help you feel better? I hope so because it did not offer anything useful or interesting.

First of all, I did not say "the poor woman was clearly ill". Those were your words. Making things up does not advance your stance.

Secondly, I see that Munchausen's By Proxy has now been identified as a probable factor, so I was right. But don't let that get in the way of your ridiculous rant.

The fact is, until we have a better grasp on mental illness, we cannot prevent these things happening.

I wonder what her parents must be thinking. Have they failed her, did they bring her up to be a decent person. Can people with mental health issues be held responsible for their actions? I mean if they hear voices telling them to do something and they do it or maybe she was jealous that she had no children and wanted others to be childless too. This has made me very wary of anyone new that I come into contact with. Evem joining onlinr meet up groupd. I knoe a couple of people who have met their partners online but after this, I would not date a stranger from the internet and one person said she chatted to her partner for a year before meeting. Having said that we should not be suspicious of everyone we meet but looking at the photographs of this nurse smiling and looking happy. It was just a smoke screen

How can someone from a middle class family emd up like this. I am religious and wonder what other religious people would think or say about this. When Jesus was put to the cross he said Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Can the same be said of this nurse?

Great post^^ . I totally agree with this.

*I think one of the most frustrating parts of the trial for me, was the fact that almost everything was in retrospect. They took past deaths and collapses and from them created a picture of what happened. Now, I totally understand that this is all they could do. They weren't afforded the ability to investigate during the incidences. And so this isn't to say that they got it wrong, it may be right.

But the problem with using 'evidence' that has passed is that it's all too easy to make the evidence fit the crime and create a narrative that "fits". The hospital were incentived to make it seem like an intentional, solo act that no one could possibly detect at the time. Because that puts all the blame on Lucy and none on the hospital*

If this argument held any weight her defence would have used it. Those who argue the evidence is circumstantial and there is ‘no smoking gun’ should consider a comment made by one of the consultants on Panarama. He was quite clear that two babies were poisoned with insulin, that is the smoking gun. It is so unlikely that one would have been accidentally poisoned never mind two. It wasn’t clear if it was injected or added to milk, but it was deliberately done. The sheer number of deaths and her being on shift each time is substantial evidence.

The other shocking thing to come out is that at some point the management agreed to being in the police, but did not until much later. If I’d lost a baby after that point I’d be pursuing some kind of legal action against every member of management involved.

Letby was accused of seven murders. The hospital had 13 baby deaths that year, when the usual number was 1-2. Even taking Letby’s crimes into account, that still leaves around three times the ‘normal’ figure. So what happened to those other babies? Perhaps the high number was just a freak and they were explainable natural deaths. Perhaps they were also killed by Letby, but there was simply no evidence to prosecute.

just watched the interview from the hospital chief and he refused to say why nothing was done sooner to stop these deaths. I think this hospital should either sack all the chief members of staff or close down the hospital. If I lived in Chester I would never want to be treated treated there. I am very surprised this has not brought about a demonstration outside the hospital because I for one would go there to demonstrate and I do not live near the area. I feel like walking into that hospital and just creating such a disturbance to the staff and telling them they failed people and if that gets me arested I would not care s single jot because I feel sick to my scomach about what has happened

@EachandEveryone yes. That's exactly what I mean. I'm a paeds nurse. And we also have a very close knit team, with a really good manager, like you, we'd be straight in the office! A few years ago there was a patient who collapsed a few times with no explanation, on the ward next door. They had security sitting on the ward and you had to sign in and out, and state why you were there. It turned out that the child did have a really rare condition in the end. My hospital was the one that raised the alarm in the Alllit case, as the children were transferred there and some of the doctors who dealt with that are still around.

Letby will have been entitled to have a representative of her choice with her at any formal meeting.