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Original poster

U.K. birthrate hits 20 year low

234 replies

SunshineHello · 18/08/2023 11:32

“Since 2011, the number of babies born has been on an almost constant downward trend, falling each year from 2011 to 2020 before a small rise in 2021 as pandemic restrictions were eased. The latest figures show another “considerable” decline last year, from 624,828 births to 605,479.”

This take the TFR to the lowest rate on record for the U.K. - 1.5

I wonder how much the birth rate will drop before it levels out.

The cost of housing and childcare are a major factor among my peers.

I currently have one in nursery and if I had two it would be ~ £4,000 pcm. That’s a £75,000 salary. To make a decision to do that is… complex.

OP posts:
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7
Wolfpa · 19/08/2023 07:40

Lots of people now also think about the environmental factors when thinking about children. Not so long ago scientists predicted that the Gulf Stream would collapse within 2-27 years putting us into an ice age. Do you want to be raising children through that/ be responsible for struggling young adults?

WhisperingHi · 19/08/2023 07:44

@Mariposa26 whilst I totally respect that, and you're right, childcare costs are crippling (I had 3 under 6 which meant I took a career break - although now back and earning more 4 years later), it really is a very temporary costs. Especially if one of you WFH and can be flexible with pick ups.

We used a local preschool rather than a nursery and one of us works downstairs for the 1.5/2 hours at the end of the workday. It's saved us huge amounts of money.

Totally understand it's not achievable for some to have more than 1, I just wanted to share how we made it work as it's such a small time period, if you would really like more.

JamSandle · 19/08/2023 07:57

FourTeaFallOut · 19/08/2023 06:38

I think it's crazy that thirty percent of babies had mothers born outside of the UK last year.
In 2000 the figure was half that, and 1990 it was 10%.

I suppose it's a tricky stat to negotiate with because it clearly fits into racist discourses and anxieties about nationalism and purity. So it seems like playing with fire to dwell on it. But clearly that tells us that there are women who are producing children in an environment in which others consider it too hostile.

I wonder if the marked differences is one of a higher propensity to be religious, or higher levels of optimism and hopefulness of those confident enough to build a new life in a different country, or cultural differences that mitigate some barriers for women who are native born?

I suppose what we are looking at is a huge and increasing number of the population with dual nationality with much more scope to ship out of the UK hits the rocks down the line, for a start. That seems significant to me, politically and socially.

(That fits my own DC's status, albeit via their Dad - so that's not meant to be some othering dog whistle, just a statement of fact about a population shift with bite)

Show quote history

In many parts of the world there is still huge cultural and religious pressure to have children and lots of them.

It would be interesting to know where the boom is coming from.

A lot of women have children because there isn't really much choice where they come from. Certainly a lot of engrained pressure and expectation.

People of all backgrounds tend to have less children when they have the freedom to choose or higher levels of education.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Childcare & nursery
mumda · 19/08/2023 08:09

@JamSandle sky has the story too now

Nearly a third of live births (30%) in 2022 were to mothers from outside the UK, the highest proportion since records began. India has replaced Romania as the most common country of birth for non-UK-born mothers, but non-UK-born fathers are most likely to come from Pakistan.

DragonFly98 · 19/08/2023 11:06

Wolfpa · 19/08/2023 07:40

Lots of people now also think about the environmental factors when thinking about children. Not so long ago scientists predicted that the Gulf Stream would collapse within 2-27 years putting us into an ice age. Do you want to be raising children through that/ be responsible for struggling young adults?

Do you really believe that? Have some common sense we are not going to be in an ice age by the 2050's. What will happen is the economy will crash as their are not enough of the population of employment age, there will not be enough care staff or hospital staff.

FourTeaFallOut · 19/08/2023 11:57

Unsurprisingly, this is a timeline which is only suggested by one group of scientist who have extrapolated data in such a way that many scientists have suggest the prediction should be taken with a significant pinch of salt.

Echobelly · 19/08/2023 12:03

Not surprised. I was relieved to be made redundant at the end of my mat leave with second child 10 years ago because childcare for 2 would have been 150% of my take home salary, so at least I had redundancy pay to see me through until oldest could start school. And things have only got more expensive since.

Goldencup · 19/08/2023 12:20

Sourcherriesarebest · 18/08/2023 12:02

There’s a post on here about abysmal maternity care. I hate to say it but it chimed totally true with my experience, it was so awful it was truly surreal, I tripped from my lovely professional life where I naively believed ability had created some kind of gender equality into a world where I was treated like an inconvenient animal. I had to have reparative surgery and treatment for a superbug which they actually tried to hide from me that I had… I remember at one of the trauma clinics (no one mentions the trauma clinics) the nurse scoldingly and shamingly said ‘where’d you get this MRSA from, then?!’ I was so bewildered I just said truthfully, ‘…here? When I was having my baby?’

My work told me that my pregnancy was ‘not exactly ideal’, maternity leave was ‘selfish and destructive’ and that I was too young to be worrying about kids (35).

I moved home to NI, had AMAZING shared care with a private obs/gyn in an NHS hospital (£4.5k) but then faced the reality that NI, despite having some of the lowest income has NO 30 hours, NO 15 hours. Children get 2.5 hours a day in nursery for only the preschool year - mine’s slot was 12-2.30 mon-fri - making it impossible for women to work around.

I freelanced, I worked part time, my old board-room level career was destroyed, on top of this my DH had to work away to make ends meet, so all the shitty wifework and domestic labour was on me. Plus we had to flip our way through a series of fixer uppers in order to get somewhere decent to live (U.K. expensive aging housing stock, overpriced and not fit for purpose, tradespeople unaffordable).

After lots of INCREDIBLE advice on here I got a job with the civil service, earning a third of what I did a decade ago. I fell on my knees with gratitude when I got it - a secure job with good pension that means I will be able to meet at least some of the crazy whims, random days off, 14 weeks of holidays plus week of teacher training days that the primary school (staffed entirely by women who are mums themselves) mandate.

I am super able, educated, enthusiastic, I have done everything from washing up in a caf to the boardroom of a big media company, where the expectations of being contactable 24/7 were not conducive to good parenting. I am broken. I am crawling back but holy shit is it hard.

Not to mention we have to hover over every aspect of our kids’ lives or be judged negligent- read the thread on other European parenting on hols, it is eye opening.

No fucking wonder women aren’t having more kids!

What an amazing post

Halfemptyhalfling · 19/08/2023 12:39

In those circumstances I'd rather have related youngsters about as it would increase survival chances with no/corrupt government. Family likely to become more important unless people join religious communities

Annaishere · 19/08/2023 13:21

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Leave me alone.

NoPazuzu · 19/08/2023 13:23

Annaishere · 18/08/2023 21:24

I just read on twitter (or X) the ex vice president of Pfizer said the Covid vaccines were designed to make women infertile

😂

I once read on twitter that the Earth is flat, the holocaust never happened and the Queen was a lizard.

HamBone · 19/08/2023 13:39

@FourTeaFallOut Re. Dual citizenship and leaving the UK.
Our neighbors are from India, their children were born here in the US, and they’ve told me that India doesn’t allow their citizens to hold dual citizenship, which really surprised me! So I assume that their children would actually need visas to live there.

LimeCheesecake · 19/08/2023 13:49

Often if your country doesn’t allow you to hold duel citizenship, it will still allow you to apply for citizenship if you meet the criteria (and usually parents and grandparents being born there would mean you qualify) but it will require you to give up your other country citizenship.

SomethingOnce · 19/08/2023 14:22

The only way out of this is more children.

Children are the riches of the poor.

Redherrings79 · 19/08/2023 14:38

Women are coming to their senses?

Chickpea17 · 19/08/2023 14:48

Thought it was a worldwide issue?

HamBone · 19/08/2023 15:24

LimeCheesecake · 19/08/2023 13:49

Often if your country doesn’t allow you to hold duel citizenship, it will still allow you to apply for citizenship if you meet the criteria (and usually parents and grandparents being born there would mean you qualify) but it will require you to give up your other country citizenship.

Yes, that’s their situation, @LimeCheesecake

HamBone · 19/08/2023 15:26

Chickpea17 · 19/08/2023 14:48

Thought it was a worldwide issue?

It is, there was an in-depth article in The Economist about this a few months ago.

xogossipgirlxo · 19/08/2023 15:37

Annaishere · 18/08/2023 21:24

I just read on twitter (or X) the ex vice president of Pfizer said the Covid vaccines were designed to make women infertile

Didn’t work, because I had my child after 2 vaccines😂 Got pregnant in 1st month of trying.

JenniferBooth · 19/08/2023 17:42

Im 50 Im child free by choice and came to that decision at 21. I couldnt have dealt with the stress noise and the pressures.

And our Tory Government have been saying for decades not to have children that you cant afford.

Yet now they moan and whine now the reckoning has to be paid.

And as for social care the Covid vaccine mandate has contributed to the problem. It was absolute insanity.

FourTeaFallOut · 19/08/2023 17:48

I haven't seen the government pay any attention to the issue. The odd MP may have highlighted it but I can only think of Mariam Cates perhaps? Even then, I wouldn't put good money on it.

DMRCFNEGC · 19/08/2023 17:48

Annaishere · 18/08/2023 21:24

I just read on twitter (or X) the ex vice president of Pfizer said the Covid vaccines were designed to make women infertile

I've just remembered you are poster who thinks being gay is contagious

Makes sense you would also think vaccines make women infertile

Annaishere · 19/08/2023 18:54

DMRCFNEGC · 19/08/2023 17:48

I've just remembered you are poster who thinks being gay is contagious

Makes sense you would also think vaccines make women infertile

Show quote history

I don’t think that I think the government is influencing people to be bisexual

Annaishere · 19/08/2023 18:55

And trans

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