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Original poster

Conflicted about the Greenwood thing

65 replies

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:37

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66540492

Because I really do believe in innocent until proven guilty and he was never prosecuted, but also WTF?! How was that possible with the evidence in the public domain?

'I'll stop supporting Man Utd if Greenwood stays'

Television presenter Rachel Riley says she will stop supporting Manchester United if forward Mason Greenwood stays at the club.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66540492

OP posts:
Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:44

I really don't know how anybody can hear that audio and see those photos and be "conflicted".

Plenty of people commit crimes that they don't get prosecuted for. Doesn't mean we have to be nice about them or support them in any way.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:47

I absolutely don't "support" him, I'll be appalled if he plays again he will but he's not guilty of anything if you believe in innocent until proven guilty, which is a fairly basic cornerstone

OP posts:
Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:48

Of it's so clear cut, which it does appear to be, why on earth was no case brought? What is this new evidence? We don't know.

OP posts:
PegasusReturns · 18/08/2023 00:49

A trial establishes the evidence and subsequent guilt (or not) in a formal manner. It allows for nuance; opposing views; legal argument.

None of that is required if you’ve heard the recording of H being raped.

he should be in jail, but in absence thereof broke and not playing footie would he done justice.

his teammates should be disgusted. But they won’t.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:51

PegasusReturns · 18/08/2023 00:49

A trial establishes the evidence and subsequent guilt (or not) in a formal manner. It allows for nuance; opposing views; legal argument.

None of that is required if you’ve heard the recording of H being raped.

he should be in jail, but in absence thereof broke and not playing footie would he done justice.

his teammates should be disgusted. But they won’t.

I agree, so why isn't he?

OP posts:
Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:51

His girlfriend is pregnant and she refused to take it any further. I'd imagine that's it.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:51

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:51

His girlfriend is pregnant and she refused to take it any further. I'd imagine that's it.

Why would she need to with that evidence?

OP posts:
SpaceRaiders · 18/08/2023 00:52

They’re nothing conflicting about this case in the slightest Op. Just because he wasn’t convicted doesn’t mean he’s innocent.

PegasusReturns · 18/08/2023 00:52

No case was brought because the complainant withdrew her support for a prosecution.

you can force a reluctant witness but it rarely helps.

I suspect the new evidence is her retraction statement” which will say something about how it’s a misunderstanding/she was angry and wanted revenge/ he’s a great guy. It’ll be bullshit.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:54

But with the tapes why would she need to give evidence, it's already there?

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 18/08/2023 00:54

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:51

His girlfriend is pregnant and she refused to take it any further. I'd imagine that's it.

She's had the baby now I believe.

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:54

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:51

Why would she need to with that evidence?

Show quote history

Because rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute. We don't actually know if he did rape her, or was just threatening her. I'd assume there is no physical evidence of rape.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:57

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:54

Because rape cases are notoriously difficult to prosecute. We don't actually know if he did rape her, or was just threatening her. I'd assume there is no physical evidence of rape.

Show quote history

Well exactly. So we don't "know" what he's guilty of.

OP posts:
Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:58

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:57

Well exactly. So we don't "know" what he's guilty of.

Show quote history

He's guilty of threatening to rape his girlfriend as heard in the audio. That's enough for me to know he's a scumbag and I'm happy to judge him for that alone.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:02

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 00:58

He's guilty of threatening to rape his girlfriend as heard in the audio. That's enough for me to know he's a scumbag and I'm happy to judge him for that alone.

Show quote history

There are plenty of scumbags in football. Ched Evans went back, Nile Ranger, Marlon King. Some were taken back by the game after serving their sentence (King).

OP posts:
Thisweeksname · 18/08/2023 01:02

It’s obvious he’s a vile creature. It’s a shame the girlfriend decided to stay with him and get pregnant. I imagine he will do something horrible further on down the line, they’ll split and she’ll sell her story for loads of money. Awful for the child to find out what dad did to mom.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:02

What basis would the club have not to honour his contract?

OP posts:
Beezknees · 18/08/2023 01:04

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:02

There are plenty of scumbags in football. Ched Evans went back, Nile Ranger, Marlon King. Some were taken back by the game after serving their sentence (King).

Show quote history

So what? They shouldn't have been. This "whataboutery" is irritating.

DMRCFNEGC · 18/08/2023 01:05

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:02

What basis would the club have not to honour his contract?

Bringing the club into disrepute

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 01:07

You don't need to be convicted of a crime to be sacked from work. Someone at my work was sacked for making a racist comment online.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:09

DMRCFNEGC · 18/08/2023 01:05

Bringing the club into disrepute

Show quote history

To be clear I don't think football should have anything to do with any of them, I was furious, it upset me for weeks when Evans was accepted back - he found a loophole that meant he wasn't (apparently) guilty of a crime, but no one who heard what he admitted to could say it was OK.

In this case though, "nothing" happened. Nothing has been proven, no evidence has been heard. You can't sack people for that, can you?

OP posts:
Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:09

Beezknees · 18/08/2023 01:07

You don't need to be convicted of a crime to be sacked from work. Someone at my work was sacked for making a racist comment online.

Presumably that was proven though?

OP posts:
Beezknees · 18/08/2023 01:11

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:09

Presumably that was proven though?

Show quote history

Well it was from his facebook account. He could have argued that he was hacked or someone else wrote it from his account though.

RosaKim · 18/08/2023 01:14

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:09

To be clear I don't think football should have anything to do with any of them, I was furious, it upset me for weeks when Evans was accepted back - he found a loophole that meant he wasn't (apparently) guilty of a crime, but no one who heard what he admitted to could say it was OK.

In this case though, "nothing" happened. Nothing has been proven, no evidence has been heard. You can't sack people for that, can you?

Show quote history

There is literally an audio recording of him trying to rape his partner. Are you saying that you don’t believe that was him?

Divebar2021 · 18/08/2023 01:16

There’s a big difference between nothing happening and nothing being proven. I’ve met plenty of men like him and I know what they do but it’s difficult to prosecute them without the evidence of the victim ( they have to be available to be cross examined). The way fans will leap on her “withdrawal” makes me fume because they tied themselves up in knots about the initial allegation calling her a liar but now all of a sudden she is credible and must be believed.