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Original poster

Conflicted about the Greenwood thing

65 replies

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 00:37

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66540492

Because I really do believe in innocent until proven guilty and he was never prosecuted, but also WTF?! How was that possible with the evidence in the public domain?

'I'll stop supporting Man Utd if Greenwood stays'

Television presenter Rachel Riley says she will stop supporting Manchester United if forward Mason Greenwood stays at the club.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66540492

OP posts:
DMRCFNEGC · 18/08/2023 01:17

StupidHip · 18/08/2023 01:09

To be clear I don't think football should have anything to do with any of them, I was furious, it upset me for weeks when Evans was accepted back - he found a loophole that meant he wasn't (apparently) guilty of a crime, but no one who heard what he admitted to could say it was OK.

In this case though, "nothing" happened. Nothing has been proven, no evidence has been heard. You can't sack people for that, can you?

Show quote history

The point at which you can sack someone is very different to the point at which they are convicted, otherwise no one would ever be sacked

nettie434 · 18/08/2023 01:18

Just 1% of rape cases reported to the police result in conviction.

The Crown Prosecution Service said that the 'key witness withdrew their evidence'. How could they get a conviction when the key witness decided they were not going to give evidence? (Using key witness here because that is how they are described by CPS.)

Premier League footballers can afford expensive barristers. Another footballer was recently found innocent of 13 rape charges involving several different women. Just imagine what would have happened if this case had gone to court with no witness. If the tape was played, all the defending barrister has to do is say it is being heard out of context, is fake, was just a game and any other number of potential responses.

I don't feel conflicted. He is an arrogant person who could not even spend one night in Iceland without having to meet up with 2 local women, along with another member of the England squad. Theis was despite being told that they had been only been allowed to go to the country during lockdown on condition they stayed within a bubble.

Nat6999 · 18/08/2023 01:22

DMRCFNEGC · 18/08/2023 01:05

Bringing the club into disrepute

Show quote history

I listened to Simon Jordan on Talksport today & he said even if Man U got rid of him, they would still have to pay up his contract. He is on a 5 year contract with at least 2.5 years to go, sacking him could cost them £20 million. If they can get him back in the team, even if that means him going out on loan for some time, they could sell him for at least £30 million at the end of the season. The Glazers who own Man U are only interested in money, the club is supposedly up for sale & the chances are it will be another Arab owner, Jim Ratcliffe has made an offer but it sounds like the Glazers don't think it was high enough. Mason Greenwood is 21 & a very good footballer, his value will only go up if he is playing again, legally he has nothing on his record, it could mean a long legal battle if they sack him.

DontBeAPrickDarren · 18/08/2023 01:27

On that basis, keep him and bench him. Never let him play and ruin his early career, any chance of getting in the England squad, and decrease his value when he becomes a free agent. Make him an expensive bench warmer. Nobody is going to pay £30m for him right now because he’s too toxic.

DontBeAPrickDarren · 18/08/2023 01:27

Until he becomes a free agent*

cariadlet · 18/08/2023 01:39

DontBeAPrickDarren · 18/08/2023 01:27

On that basis, keep him and bench him. Never let him play and ruin his early career, any chance of getting in the England squad, and decrease his value when he becomes a free agent. Make him an expensive bench warmer. Nobody is going to pay £30m for him right now because he’s too toxic.

Sounds the perfect solution.

I hadn't heard anything about the case until I came across a transcript of the audio on Twitter today.

It disgusts me that football clubs and sponsors refuse to disassociate themselves from these violent men just because they make a lot of money for the clubs and sponsors.

One of the tweets I saw compared the statement put out by Adidas re this case and the statement put out re the footballer who was filmed kicking his 2 cats.

David Challen has been excellent in calling out the lack of condemnation of VAWG.

Phillipsson · 18/08/2023 01:46

the evidence people are referring to was images of her injuries and a voice recording right?

IMO, the problem with this case is that so much evidence is in the public domain as it can hamper the prosecution’s case. It could lead to jury bias etc. There’s a myriad of reasons why reporting restrictions are in place and people are not advised to post details on social media. I therefore assume the prosecution being dropped is likely due to a legal procedural issue. If they can’t give him a fair trial there’s a chance of an unjust conviction, even if it’s likely he committed the crime. I assume there was enough reasonable doubt of soundness for the CPS to agree to proceed.

however the victim has options such as civil case where the burden isn’t as high, and I doubt he will ever recover his reputation.

Nat6999 · 18/08/2023 02:28

DontBeAPrickDarren · 18/08/2023 01:27

On that basis, keep him and bench him. Never let him play and ruin his early career, any chance of getting in the England squad, and decrease his value when he becomes a free agent. Make him an expensive bench warmer. Nobody is going to pay £30m for him right now because he’s too toxic.

His contract is £3.9 million a year, I can't see Man U paying him that to bench him, they will try & send him on loan so another club pays him. The other option is he follows the money & jets off to Saudi to play in their new league, with their record of how they treat women, he should fit in well.

anotherside · 18/08/2023 02:41

You would have thought that audio recording in itself would be sufficient for Man Utd to not want him on their books.

Phillipsson · 18/08/2023 02:47

Just read that the victim got back with him and they had a baby since all this happened. He deserves to be punished for what he did to her but getting back with him almost undermines the point of reporting him. I hope she’s getting some unbiased support. I get that she’s likely to have been pressured from different people that are highly manipulative and is likely in love. But to forgive him to the extent of potential marriage and kids seems short sighted. I doubt he’s turned over a new leaf.

If she gave a statement to the club asking them to reinstate him, I’m sure the club would oblige. She probably has as they have a child to fend for now… It’s likely the club will take him back as they have no reason not to especially if they present her statement to anyone with criticism

Phillipsson · 18/08/2023 02:49

anotherside · 18/08/2023 02:41

You would have thought that audio recording in itself would be sufficient for Man Utd to not want him on their books.

Not if the victim has changed her story eg indicates it was a misunderstanding or edited. She’s forgiven him now so may not support him being punished especially not financially

SequinsandStiIettos · 18/08/2023 04:39

He was in breach contacting Harriet last October.
They now have a baby nine months later and he intends marrying her.
So between February and October, she was free of the alleged coercive control but then has been hooked back in. Or she did not want the audio leaked originally and would have taken him back sooner had her phone not been hacked.
Either way she's withdrawn all charges and they won't go after a new father, whose wife cannot be forced to testify.

Buildingthefuture · 18/08/2023 05:11

I don’t give a shit what he is legally guilty of, any man who treats a woman like that is a revolting turd. Abusive, misogynist, controlling arsehole. I wouldn’t employ him in any capacity, ever.

HappiDaze · 18/08/2023 05:21

Why was it being recorded though

I find that all a bit odd

I didn't realise the woman in question was his current girlfriend who has just had his baby

They said it was someone who's confidentially is being respected. Not the case if we know it's her. I thought it was a random woman he'd met.

I've not really been following this and am just going from the news I watched in the last 24 hours

Globules · 18/08/2023 07:04

Like you OP, I strongly believe in innocent until proven guilty.

Those recordings make him guilty in my eyes. The fact she's gone back to him after screams the coercive control is true.

No conflict here of his guilt... It's just not in a court of law.

I agree with PP that he's now unable to get a fair trial, due to all the evidence in the public domain. Which is where MU should step in and do the right thing. But they won't, as the money is more important than the humanity.

MU are too big to lose popularity over this. Frustratingly they will be the ones to set the standard in the FA to which other clubs hold themselves accountable to, should any similar cases occur in the future in another club.

LlynTegid · 18/08/2023 07:11

I am not conflicted at all. Mason Greenwood should be sacked by Manchester United. Behaviour that results in dismissal need not be anything that results in a criminal charge or trial.

Original poster
StupidHip · 18/08/2023 08:16

There are loads of really expensive players at the big clubs who never play. Its perfectly normal for players to make a "step up" in the knowledge that they'll barely play any football.

Even if MU did release him, some smaller club will take a risk on the "bargain" that he'd become.

If he was guilty or suspected guilty of racism he'd never play again (good) but this seems to be different, despite all the #hergametoo bollocks.

OP posts:
Bluevelvetsofa · 18/08/2023 09:19

Money talks

nationallampoons · 18/08/2023 09:59

She refuses to take it further but still has the counselling Hmm

OnlyFoolsnMothers · 18/08/2023 10:01

Man U is not just any club- it’s held to a different standard- he should be released and let some crappy club in Turkey pick him up- might keep his misses safe it in another country at least

MadisonAvenue · 21/08/2023 15:16

Utd have just announced that he doesn’t have a future at the club.

LlynTegid · 21/08/2023 16:29

My guess is that he will end up playing in Saudi Arabia.

Phillipsson · 21/08/2023 19:29

MadisonAvenue · 21/08/2023 15:16

Utd have just announced that he doesn’t have a future at the club.

I think they were a lot kinder towards him than that. They stated:

Based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged. That said, as Mason publicly acknowledges today, he has made mistakes which he is taking responsibility for

MadNads · 21/08/2023 19:38

Arsenal need to get rid of theirs now.

nettie434 · 21/08/2023 22:02

The announcement completely contradicts the video, the investigation has taken too long, but the final decision was right. The women fans who campaigned outside Old Trafford did an excellent job.