How angry: DD(11) walked through village in swimsuit?

[PSBorNormal]

I'm very pissed off, with DD but mainly with the other parent, at the inappropriate-ness of letting a girl walk home from their house in a swimming costume. DH thinks it's hilarious and I'm over reacting.

DD(11) went to a friends house after school today. Friend lives on a farm on the outskirts of the village (1800 inhabitants), on the edge of the forest. They went swimming in their pool and I'd told DD she needed to be home at 6pm. She walked 5 minutes down the side road from the forest (where a lot of dog walkers park, 5 houses) then 10 minutes down one of the two main roads through the village to the centre where we live, wearing only her swimming costume with a towel around her shoulders.

I don't think this is appropriate and told her off for not getting changed.
DH doesn't see an issue with it.

What would your reaction be?

You hang around malls in your swimming costume?! Well how very unusual. Most people don't, they tend to wear them at the beach or the pool with some kind of cover up if then walking home.

The point is this is an 11yr old, alone, walking home. It isn't what most parents would advise.

Depends. Was it a one piece or bikini? If the latter then I'd worry about others perving on a young girl. It's different at the beach or pool because most people are wearing skimpier clothes. Although I remember being in school uniform and men in vans would beep and holler. Men in vans and builders would do this quite often (no matter what I wore). Stopped when I was around 21 (and I looked younger than 21).

Pretty much an entire country in the UK is now back at school after the summer holidays. This site is not just England only!

I wouldn't have been happy about that either. It's all well and good people saying "she should be able to wear what she likes without fearing sexual predators/being sexualised" but I think we all know that is an 'ideal' and not the reality of the world we live in. She shouldn't have to worry about these things, but she is putting herself in more danger than necessary. It's not her fault though, and I wouldn't be angry with her, but an honest conversation may help her to understand.

@PSBorNormal

Mainly because I can't express logically why I'm uncomfortable about it.

It's important that you try. Not publicly here, but in your own time, for yourself, and for your daughter, it matters.

I know that clothes shouldn't make a difference.

The thing is, we can't dress ourselves or our children or teenagers in any way that will prevent what I think you're fearing from happening. There is nothing you can put them in, or wear yourself to prevent it. Rape culture would like us to believe that it was the low cut top, the short skirt, the heels, the long flowing hair, the swimming costume, the makeup the tight jeans, but that's not true. The reason was the perpetrator.

It's just a short hop away from She Was Asking For It, which is so very very problematic. While we think it is about what we wear, and feel we can be safe in jeans and trainers which is absolutely untrue, the weight of responsibility is still on us not to get raped by wearing the "right" thing. Not on the real issue which is the act of violence and the person committing it.

I see victim blaming is still alive and well. OP, hate to burst your bubble but what women/girls wear has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much unwanted attention they get.

I was suggesting that your mention of underwear wasn't relevant. Where I live, we do not see each other culturally in our underwear, ever. It's not something we ever see each other wearing due to cultural norms. I can think of no country where this is the case, I can think of many situations where I, and you will have seen other adults in their swimming costume. More so in parts of this country with more of a beach culture, and certainly in other countries. So perhaps we can say that it's not unusual.

My argument doesn't involve underwear, tiny or enormous, at all. I was suggesting it made no sense that you brought underwear into it. It's different to a swimsuit, because, it's not a swimsuit. No, underwear isn't appopriate outerwear. Swimwear is often seen on others as outerwear. She had been swimming.

Could you explain to me why clothes would be better please? On an 11 year old in her home village?

Should she completely change her behaviour once she does have breasts?

I wouldn’t be worried at all about this if it was in a busy area like a beach, busy streets in a town near the pool etc. It’s the fact that the child was alone in a fairly remote area and if she had started getting unwanted attention there wouldn’t be anyone else around to help . Of course you don’t want to shame your child as they themselves haven’t done anything wrong. But the context is everything, this being a remote area with no one around, little natural security - and unfortunately some men would pay more attention to a girl wearing a swimsuit or skimpy clothing. If no one’s around then they may act on it and harass them. Something relatively minor like cat-calling, or perhaps something much worse. I would also have been very upset with the other parent for not taking actions to prevent your daughter being less vulnerable, as they should have understood the situation far better than the child would have done. Teenagers also wear very skimpy clothing, yes, but they have the maturity to understand when this may (sadly) put them at more risk or not - at the park/nightclub with all their mates, fine. Walking around in a remote area on their own, they’d probably think twice.

@Aposterhasnoname I would disagree. When I'm in my winter coat I don't get cat called as much as I do when I'm a summer dress or with tight leggings. On my bike randomly (it's quite a cute looking bike) seems to get me the most comments from men strangely. I was also walking along the road carrying a chair (bought at charity shop) and got a few call outs from men. It seems to be anything unusual not just how much skin is on show. So I think a girl in a towel would attract more attention than one in a tracksuit

Saying that when o stay at British seaside resorts I've regularly walked back to hotel in a towel crossing busy roads etc rather that try to get changed at the beach, I might have looked a little odd but I don't care and didn't get any comments (I know the seaside is a bit different and I'm an adult though- but I don't think it's indecent if wearing a towel)

I'm with you, OP.

A swimming costume/bikini has the magical illusion of not being underwear when it's worn in an appropriate setting.

If you were on holiday, you'd think nothing of standing at the pool bar in your cossie.

As soon as you step out of the magical bubble, you're in your underwear in public - stuff of nightmares for most of us.
.

Swimming costumes are for SWIMMING pools etc, you're right to let your your daughter know that certain clothing is appropriate for certain situations,

@Aposterhasnoname but what women/girls wear has absolutely NOTHING to do with how much unwanted attention they get.
I'm not sure this is true. Certainly not in my experience. Ok, if someone is going to abduct/rape then probably yes, clothing is irrelevant. But stares, cat-calls and comments, I'm not so sure. One of the safety things always drilled into us when I was a teenager was don't do anything to make yourself conspicuous. And this would have made her conspicuous, we are not living in a sea side town and I can honestly say I've never seen anyone walk through the village in a swimsuit.

Oh Jesus, I used to walk back down the wooded cycle track from the public splash pool like that at her age. It's a non event, especially if she wasn't alone.

Buy her a hooded towel to put over the swimsuit - instant clothing.

(I do a lot of wild swimming and I'm a bit hesitant about walking to/from the swim spot in a swimsuit so I have one of these).

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brentfords-Swimming-Absorbent-Microfibre-Changing/dp/B09P5GLRVL/ref=mpssa113?adgrpid=61676116308&hvadid=606206688678&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=1006699&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4672874815205268618&hvtargid=kwd-296792663890&hydadcr=6245_2344297&keywords=hooded+towel&qid=1692178138&sr=8-3

She was alone, it's in the op. Walking 10mins on main roads in a swimming costume isn't something we should be saying is ok for our 11yr old kids to do. The other parent really should have stepped in and given her a lift or suggest she got changed.

I agree with this 100%

Why do you agree with it, there shouldn't ever be a reason to use the disgusting term 'slut shame' so please don't applaud it.

The op had valid concerns, a child walking around main roads by herself in a swimming costume is just not advisable. We all cover up in public places not because we aren't 'sluts' but because it is societal norms.

The OP had valid concerns that she can't quite put her finger on and there's an 11 year old girl somewhere who has internalised her mother's really pissed off-ness and converted that into shame about her body for some unspecified reason.

As adult women responsible for raising young people and doing better, we need to get really clear on what the problem is here, and deal with actual risk rather than getting caught up in clothing and the faceless predators.

Empowering young women to know that their body is not an issue, it's not a shameful problem that belongs to the male gaze and making sure our young men believe that women do not exist for their pleasure and convenience. This starts from birth with Mummy's Little Princess and Mummy's Little Monster/Monkey. I've literally just driven along the road behind a car with both of these baby on board signs in the rear view mirror.

If lack of modest clothing were the issue can anyone explain the rates of sexual violence against women in countries where extreme modest clothing is an absolute must at all times?

'Empowering young women to know that their body is not an issue'

So you'd walk home from your pals along main roads through a village in your bikini would you? Nope. Its nothing to do with modesty, internalising 'pissed off ness' or body shaming. It's societal norms, we don't wander about in our swimming cozzie. What next your husband does his shopping at Tesco in his speedos because why not?? .

I really can't see an issue with it.

You're misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting that if you run down the road in your bikini this afternoon you will solve a problem. I might walk from the river to the car along the road with a towel around my shoulders, yes. My imaginary husband doesn't wear speedos, but that's not what happened here so it's irelevant. If the OP had posted about her DH going into Tesco in his swimmers, we would be having an entirely different conversation. We're not.

The OP stated that she was 'very pissed off" and told her daughter off. I'm suggesting that this isn't helpful, as she asked the question, and it has everything to do with internalising shame. This is exactly how it happens.

I'm interested as to why you feel there is no crossover between societal norms and modesty?

Whatever next? Oh I don't know, maybe we can start having informed conversations with our kids and preparing them for situations that might occur properly, giving them agency, instead of a complex and making them feel that their body is a problem to be detatched from, and less likely to be able to stand up for themselves if something does arise. Who knows.

'Whatever next? Oh I don't know, maybe we can start having informed conversations with our kids and preparing them for situations that might occur

Oh I don't know either, but perhaps if you have a pool in your garden you ensure visiting kids get dressed before sending them on their way. Basic stuff really 🙄. Plenty of time to be having 'informed conversations' too.

Pretty difficult to have an informed conversation unless you're informed though.