The immigrant barge - what’s actually wrong with using it?

[NC523]

Educate me!

I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me, including common rooms/relaxation areas/health support on board. Residents can go on & off the boat, it’s passed fire etc safety and been used to house people in lots of other situations. I don’t understand why people think it’s not ok. Can anyone explain please?

From the New York post, some countries are having to teach males how to interact with women;

"Much of the burden of gender violence has been borne by women in immigrant communities. But increasingly, women of all backgrounds are facing restricted access to the public sphere. Swimming pools in countries as varied as Sweden and Australia have instituted “women only” swimming hours, sometimes in reference to “Muslim modesty.” In Germany, in response to persistent refugee misbehavior toward women, one swimming pool put up friendly cartoons with etiquette instructions including “don’t touch women.” After a spate of sexual attacks by migrants in Norway in 2009, some localities offered refugees an optional course on how to interact properly with women; among the topics was proper boundaries. "

We are also trying to become carbon neutral supposedly

This isn't helping and the food control will become an issue

For the sake of clarity it was established in 1999 in a case at the High Court and on appeal to the HoLs that transit through other countries did not preclude someone from making a legitimate asylum claim in the UK.

Are you saying we should change the law, and therefore withdraw from the 1951 convention?

The only reason that asylum seekers do not contribute economically to the UK is that for all of the many years that they are asylum seekers awaiting a decision on their case the UK government does not permit them to work. That is a choice made by the UK government and could be changed any day the government chooses.

Unless evidence is presented to the contrary I would assume that once asylum seekers have the right to stay and work in the UK they make the most of that opportunity and contribute economically, especially since we are repeatedly told that most asylum seekers are in fact economic migrants, it would be odd if they didn't.

On the subject of economic contribution, I am very surprised that no one has yet been able to explain why the very wealthy like Rishi Sunak are allowed to pay a lower proportion of their income in tax than nurses and teachers do.

And how you are going to tell the difference between an asylum seeker who moves to a country where they think they can support themselves and an economic migrant without processing them?

I don’t for a second believe that where there are alternative options people on this thread would move to a refugee camp with no ability to support themselves over attempting to get to somewhere where they can use their skills or have family connections. Largely people are projecting what they think they might do in a hypothetical situation they have no experience of onto people who are living that experience.

@Clavinova tbf to you, i think Stephen Kinnock is an idiot, in fact that could apply to several Labour shadow ministers.

I'm much further to the left than the present Labour party BUT that doesn't mean i believe in open borders to HK citizens or anyone else, the UK has such awful public services and housing (and quality) that allowing in anybody from anywhere, is going to lead to a great deal of resentment, which may, over time, allow the UK to become even more right wing.

We need an open and transparent process for anyone fleeing persecution, wherever they are from but very few coming from HK are in that category and its the Tories that opened this particular floodgate, which is very odd considering they wish to curb migration... are the Tories in hock to the Chinese, like they are/were with the Russians?

Oddly the UK government has introduced new laws that make legal protest much more difficult, whilst simaltaenously complaining about China doing the same.

I live (unlike most of money-privileged Mumsnet) in a working-class city, on your typical inner-city terraced Street. I'm the typical person whose daily life (noise&crime levels, HMO applications left right and centre, my child's education prospects) is negatively affected by ever increasing undesirable&illegal immigration.

I am a migrant myself.
However, Bibby would serve purpose only with a spluttering engine sailing back into the sunset, dropping people back off home as it goes.
Yeah, the scummy "rough-class" British are not much better than the Africans from the weed-grow house two doors down but two wrongs don't make a positive.

Maybe I just need to be educated... Can someone from the leafy Wimbledon or Sevenoaks please talk some sense into me? Lilly Allen will do at a push. Thank you in advance.

But they are not considered full British nationals, since for example they do not pay home tuition fees for university.

As it happens I know a number of families of HKers who have recently moved to the UK. They weren't being persecuted, they just wanted to live in the UK and have their children educated here.

Thinking the doors were wide open to Ukrainians is a rewriting of history that doesn’t quite match up with the total fuck up the government made of it while trying to allow as few Ukrainians as possible into the country.

The U.K. did really well in providing money and arms to Ukraine. It did a piss poor job of accepting ukranian refugees compared to much of the rest of Europe. It went about as well as the system for resettling Afghan refugees.

I have to say I am somewhat confused.

Economic migrants = good.
Asylum seekers = good, unless they are economic migrants in which case that is very bad.

It does not make sense.

Quite interested in how you “speed up” claims.
How do you do that with people with no paperwork from countries in crisis?

If the asylum seekers have valid reasons to flee their countries, why do they throw away their papers and ID etc?

Why can't the HK nationals dc pay tuition fees like everyone else then or have I misunderstood

It is important I think to note in relation to Ukraine, that those refugees from Ukraine were not granted refugee status in the UK, but rather a separate status for Ukranians that means that the government can decide at any point to change the law and deport them.

They pay international tuition fees, not home fees, and are not elligible for other forms of student support that home students are. Which is a little odd if they are British and so we must look after them.

Yep some of the UKs max prison sentences exceed those dished out to some HK student protestors!
So we could potential be the "envious" position of giving a protestor a longer sentence than the HK courts......

Merely blocking the public highway (which includes a residential street) without prior permission from the Police, can get you 51 weeks in prison.

But asylum seekers that don’t work also very bad because = benefit scroungers.

There are a lot of arguments that are confusing.
death trap barge = luxury accommodation if you are an asylum seeker.
death trap barge = deterrent

I’m also not quite sure how sticking 500 people on a boat is going to make a significant dent in the hotel bill the government have created by deliberately slowing down processing.

Due to choices the UK government has made and could change any day it chooses to, asylum seekers are not allowed to work, although anyone who is aware of how much they are entitled to in benefits wouldn't think of it as scrounging.

I‘ve read about the harassment issues in German swimming pools.
I do wonder if the men in question really don’t realise that what they’re doing is wrong and unwanted and whether friendly cartoon signs will stop them.

Yes. It was more refugee in the general international sense of the word. Not the ‘oh shit if we give you refugee status you might be entitled to stay here’ U.K. sense of the word.

I also find it ridiculous how the upper echelons of over-privileged housewives and their student offspring can't see that their support for culturally alien, economically inactive migrant class is negatively affecting the actual working class migrants and locals that keep the service economy ticking by.

It becomes unpleasant living in a working class area changed beyond recognition. And so an inner- country migration flight ensues. Whole areas get stripped of working and/or English speaking families in search of better living conditions.
I'd take my child and go elsewhere aswell. Barely any classmates speak English in my son's school. The teachers struggle with teaching. There is also a behavioral barrier with parents, equal to the language barrier.

I temporarily work for a large supermarket who are constantly trying to recruit staff for huge amount of varied roles. The workers are 80% white British, 15% Polish and 5% others (and even then mostly British born).
Those numbers in no way reflect the parents at the local schools.
Where are the migrants trying to carve out a better life for their families?

I'm just shocked (or maybe not) that some "up high" think that the above is somehow desirable and should be repeated many times over across the country.
We're fucked, ladies & gentlemen, if this carries on.

I live relatively close to Sandiacre and have just had a look at the local Spotted page and there was no mention of this.

The all have no document, right? every single one of them? Even the ones that came here by train or plane?

Also, if our system crumbles because its unable to deal with people who have no documents than maybe I'm right and the system is shit??? And the answer is to develop a quick way to deal with these situations and not put people into prisons for years? And no, you would not be able to send people to Rwanda if they have no passport, no matter how tempting it may sound to you.

The decline in productivity is not caused by lack of papers but by inadequacy of the system.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/asylum-backlog

@Bubblyb00b The decline in productivity is not caused by lack of papers but by inadequacy of the system.

Not their own governments not wanting them back?

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-albanians-returned-under-landmark-deal-but-many-have-absconded-or-still-in-hostels-says-jenrick-12896083

Alexandra2001
I'm much further to the left than the present Labour party BUT that doesn't mean i believe in open borders to HK citizens or anyone else

It's not an open border to Hong Kong applicants if they need visas - plus fees/biometrics/health surcharge/financial requirements...