Page 21 | The immigrant barge - what’s actually wrong with using it?

NC523 · 2023-08-08T17:16:44+00:00

Educate me! I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me, including common rooms/relaxation areas/health support on board. Residents can go on & off the boat, it’s passed fire etc safety and been used to house people in lots of other situations. I don’t understand why people think it’s not ok. Can anyone explain please?

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 10:02

Where are the migrants trying to carve out a better life for their families?

You do know asylum seekers aren’t allowed to work?

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 10:04

Some streamlining of claims is occurring, it seems;

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/albanian-deportations-small-boats-law-b2324204.html

Government strips safeguards on asylum seekers in push to deport more Albanians

Checks are being removed so officials can declare asylum claims ‘clearly unfounded’ faster

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/albanian-deportations-small-boats-law-b2324204.html

Bubblyb00b · 10/08/2023 10:11

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 10:00

@Bubblyb00b The decline in productivity is not caused by lack of papers but by inadequacy of the system.

Not their own governments not wanting them back?

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-albanians-returned-under-landmark-deal-but-many-have-absconded-or-still-in-hostels-says-jenrick-12896083

This is "migrants" so I assume they are not considered to be refugees. And - what does "hundreds" mean? What %% of the whole? This is hardly all of them. and what about people from Syria, Afghanistan, Eritrea and other similar places?

This is sensationalism, I'm being pragmatic. This discussion is not going to work.

CloudyMcCloud · 10/08/2023 10:13

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 09:24

I live (unlike most of money-privileged Mumsnet) in a working-class city, on your typical inner-city terraced Street. I'm the typical person whose daily life (noise&crime levels, HMO applications left right and centre, my child's education prospects) is negatively affected by ever increasing undesirable&illegal immigration.

I am a migrant myself.
However, Bibby would serve purpose only with a spluttering engine sailing back into the sunset, dropping people back off home as it goes.
Yeah, the scummy "rough-class" British are not much better than the Africans from the weed-grow house two doors down but two wrongs don't make a positive.

Maybe I just need to be educated... Can someone from the leafy Wimbledon or Sevenoaks please talk some sense into me? Lilly Allen will do at a push. Thank you in advance.

Ha at this, last bit

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 10:15

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 09:54

I also find it ridiculous how the upper echelons of over-privileged housewives and their student offspring can't see that their support for culturally alien, economically inactive migrant class is negatively affecting the actual working class migrants and locals that keep the service economy ticking by.

It becomes unpleasant living in a working class area changed beyond recognition. And so an inner- country migration flight ensues. Whole areas get stripped of working and/or English speaking families in search of better living conditions.
I'd take my child and go elsewhere aswell. Barely any classmates speak English in my son's school. The teachers struggle with teaching. There is also a behavioral barrier with parents, equal to the language barrier.

I temporarily work for a large supermarket who are constantly trying to recruit staff for huge amount of varied roles. The workers are 80% white British, 15% Polish and 5% others (and even then mostly British born).
Those numbers in no way reflect the parents at the local schools.
Where are the migrants trying to carve out a better life for their families?

I'm just shocked (or maybe not) that some "up high" think that the above is somehow desirable and should be repeated many times over across the country.
We're fucked, ladies & gentlemen, if this carries on.

The solution to that is pretty simple.

Allow asylum seekers to work whilst their claims are being processed, and speed up the processing of claims.

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 10:18

Bubblyb00b · 10/08/2023 10:11

This is "migrants" so I assume they are not considered to be refugees. And - what does "hundreds" mean? What %% of the whole? This is hardly all of them. and what about people from Syria, Afghanistan, Eritrea and other similar places?

This is sensationalism, I'm being pragmatic. This discussion is not going to work.

Show quote history

I thought it was government policy to permit migrants to abscond.
If it isnt one solution to reduce the absconding rate would be to speed up claims processing.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1687901561282772992.html

Thread by @lizziedearden on Thread Reader App

@lizziedearden: Exclusive: Rishi Sunak has been accused of “cooking the books” to cut the asylum backlog as thousands of claims are removed from the system following his pledge More than 6,000 people were wiped off ...…

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1687901561282772992.html

Iwasafool · 10/08/2023 10:19

Clavinova · 09/08/2023 21:59

I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me

September 2009
Exeter University has had to convert single bedrooms into double accommodation. About 200 students will spend their first year sleeping in bunk beds, with rent discounted from £170 a week to £110.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2009/sep/18/university-admissions-student-loans-housing

And that was headline news because it wasn't very much like standard student accommodation

CloudyMcCloud · 10/08/2023 10:23

Bubblyb00b · 10/08/2023 08:11

I wanted to say the same. People on here hating refugees equally hate benefit claimants or council house occupiers - anyone who is, in their mind, needs help "from their pockets". They might claim otherwise, but they do.

The barge itself is, basically, a prison. Designed to be as awful as possible without actually being a prison. Crammed rooms, no access anywhere, nothing to see out of the windows, nothing to do just sit in the room indefinitely taking turns with your inmate using one chair provided - not for a few weeks, but years and years. And - get this - people who already on it did not "throw their passports away", they are from Syria, Afghanistan, etc - and they came here on planes. They are as genuine asylum seekers as can be, doing things "legally".

The world is going tits up - wars, fires, heat - so there will be more and more people migrating north. Its inevitable. Sticking them into prisons will not solve anything. The only way to deal with the issue of people coming to claim asylum here is to create an efficient and quick system to process claims, and not piss millions of pounds up the wall with insane Rwanda flights or the prison barge. But sorting the bureaucracy out is a bit boring, isn't it? Doesn't generate catchy headlines in DM. And requires training, organising, planning. Not something our dear government is capable of.

Show quote history

It is one way to go, just process quickly. Do you have an idea of the number who would want to do that?

Notonthestairs · 10/08/2023 10:27

Bubblyb00b · 10/08/2023 09:57

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/article/explainer/asylum-backlog

Thanks for this. Really interesting article outlining the flaws in our systems with a few practical suggestions regarding how it might work more efficiently.

Clavinova · 10/08/2023 10:45

Bubblyb00b
The barge itself is, basically, a prison. Designed to be as awful as possible without actually being a prison. Crammed rooms, no access anywhere, nothing to see out of the windows, nothing to do just sit in the room indefinitely taking turns with your inmate using one chair provided - not for a few weeks, but years and years.

Sounds better in the Mail !!

Migrants staying on the Home Office's new floating hotel will be given a taste of British life including tending to allotments, guided hikes in the Dorset countryside, cycling and cricket.
The asylum seekers will also get free busses and taxis to enjoy the local town and organised 'cultural events'.
And on board the Bibby Stockholm accommodation barge, there is free canteen food around the clock, TV rooms, a gym...

Clavinova · 10/08/2023 10:52

Iwasafool
And that was headline news because it wasn't very much like standard student accommodation

The Exeter University students had to pay for their own accommodation though. Also, I posted earlier that we went to view St Andrews and Durham Universities - both had shared bedrooms (luck of the draw I think as to whether students were allocated a shared room or not).

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 12:25

@Bubblyb00b Let's do some simple number-crunching.

The number of outstanding asylum claims stands at 172,758.
Add on to that the number of people arriving this year to date 15,071
Total = 187,929.
Assuming 76% of the claims are accepted then we have 142,826 more people to accommodate in UK.
That's equivalent to the population of Sunderland.

If we have another 15,00 arriving in the rest of the year that's another potential 11,00 increase in the population to end of December.

Unless we have something to deter arrivals then this level of population growth is unsustainable.

Barbadossunset · 10/08/2023 12:32

Are you suggesting we take in everyone from any country who is threatened with arrest/oppression if they protest?

Alexandra I thought plenty of asylum seekers - not just Hong Kong Chinese - left their home countries because as dissidents they were under threat from their governments?

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 12:40

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 10:15

The solution to that is pretty simple.

Allow asylum seekers to work whilst their claims are being processed, and speed up the processing of claims.

Show quote history

Haha! Where are the one's that have been processed?!
Where are the faces from the school gates (the one's in my locality, clearly not yours)?
Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work? Oh, the pun of it!

According to some on here though: treat all and any newcomer to money&house&passport and you'll soon have hordes of wholesome Algerian/Albanian/Somali/Iraqi (any) migrants serving your Starbucks with a smile.
That's not wishful thinking - it's disordered thinking!
There's brain rot amongst the moneyed classes.
Just you wait, it will catch up with you. It will not be pleasant living behind your high gates with the rest of the population rotting right outside.
The liberal at all cost policies will do San Francisco and worse.

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 13:13

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 12:40

Haha! Where are the one's that have been processed?!
Where are the faces from the school gates (the one's in my locality, clearly not yours)?
Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work? Oh, the pun of it!

According to some on here though: treat all and any newcomer to money&house&passport and you'll soon have hordes of wholesome Algerian/Albanian/Somali/Iraqi (any) migrants serving your Starbucks with a smile.
That's not wishful thinking - it's disordered thinking!
There's brain rot amongst the moneyed classes.
Just you wait, it will catch up with you. It will not be pleasant living behind your high gates with the rest of the population rotting right outside.
The liberal at all cost policies will do San Francisco and worse.

Show quote history

How do you know where I live?

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 13:13

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 12:40

Haha! Where are the one's that have been processed?!
Where are the faces from the school gates (the one's in my locality, clearly not yours)?
Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work? Oh, the pun of it!

According to some on here though: treat all and any newcomer to money&house&passport and you'll soon have hordes of wholesome Algerian/Albanian/Somali/Iraqi (any) migrants serving your Starbucks with a smile.
That's not wishful thinking - it's disordered thinking!
There's brain rot amongst the moneyed classes.
Just you wait, it will catch up with you. It will not be pleasant living behind your high gates with the rest of the population rotting right outside.
The liberal at all cost policies will do San Francisco and worse.

Show quote history

I take it from your post you are against economic migration. Am I correct?

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 13:18

@QueenCamilla Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work?

Indeed.

What are we going to do when all these young men get their asylum claims upheld and then want to bring their women folk over here - because they have a 'right to a family life'?
It is a fact that Muslim women are more likely to be unemployed than their non-Muslim counterparts.
And before anyone calls me 'racist' or 'Islamophobic' here is the Full Fact summation.

https://fullfact.org/economy/are-muslim-women-more-likely-be-unemployed/

Are Muslim women more likely to be unemployed? - Full Fact

The unemployment rate for Muslim women was 16% in 2015, compared to around 5% for women in general.

https://fullfact.org/economy/are-muslim-women-more-likely-be-unemployed

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 13:32

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 13:18

@QueenCamilla Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work?

Indeed.

What are we going to do when all these young men get their asylum claims upheld and then want to bring their women folk over here - because they have a 'right to a family life'?
It is a fact that Muslim women are more likely to be unemployed than their non-Muslim counterparts.
And before anyone calls me 'racist' or 'Islamophobic' here is the Full Fact summation.

https://fullfact.org/economy/are-muslim-women-more-likely-be-unemployed/

@EllenVannen are you also against economic migration?

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 13:38

EllenVannen · 10/08/2023 13:18

@QueenCamilla Where is the massive population of Romanian women and men? I know they are not asylum seekers but clearly economical migration from certain countries just doesn't seem to...work?

Indeed.

What are we going to do when all these young men get their asylum claims upheld and then want to bring their women folk over here - because they have a 'right to a family life'?
It is a fact that Muslim women are more likely to be unemployed than their non-Muslim counterparts.
And before anyone calls me 'racist' or 'Islamophobic' here is the Full Fact summation.

https://fullfact.org/economy/are-muslim-women-more-likely-be-unemployed/

Those stats are seven years out of date and the term “unemployed” is misleading. Unemployment and economically inactive are different. Just because your views are endorsed by a third party doesn’t make them any less racist.

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 13:51

@EllenVannen I'm pro Australian style economic migration. Or whatever the style as long as the condition of the migration status is having an actual salaried job with a legitimate employer. Not the fake-front barbers, nail salons or some mystical self-employment that only feeds the opportunity of crime and fraud.

My British in-laws had a Car Wash Asylum Iraqi in their midst. Bore them a grand child. Until his car wash was police raided, his mortgage free house in the South East confiscated, all the fake passports and documents confiscated (that were serving as a gate-way to other criminals). Went on the run. Never an honest day's work despite all the bloody welcoming.

@EllenVannen I suppose you OK with that? What pushes you to turn a blind eye to the cultural component of some failing Utopian ideas? What allows you to be immune to the decaying communities around you? Do you not live with us - the average working people?

inamarina · 10/08/2023 13:56

jgw1 · 10/08/2023 13:13

I take it from your post you are against economic migration. Am I correct?

Show quote history

I don’t get this impression from her post.

She said in her previous post that there is a high percentage of immigrants where she lives, yet that percentage is not reflected at her work place, a large supermarket, so she wonders where those immigrants work.
Of course they don’t have to work at the supermarket, but I get where she’s coming from.
In our town we have large groups of (young) men hanging around the town centre. I also wonder what exactly their occupation is, and I‘m not against economic migration (when done properly).

Alexandra2001 · 10/08/2023 14:03

Clavinova · 10/08/2023 10:02

Alexandra2001
I'm much further to the left than the present Labour party BUT that doesn't mean i believe in open borders to HK citizens or anyone else

It's not an open border to Hong Kong applicants if they need visas - plus fees/biometrics/health surcharge/financial requirements...

160k people have been given the visas, 82 refusals... seems open border to me & after 5 years will be given citizenship.

IF they need all you say they do, then they are clearly not British and not fleeing persecution.

theyareonlynoodlesmichael · 10/08/2023 14:03

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 13:51

@EllenVannen I'm pro Australian style economic migration. Or whatever the style as long as the condition of the migration status is having an actual salaried job with a legitimate employer. Not the fake-front barbers, nail salons or some mystical self-employment that only feeds the opportunity of crime and fraud.

My British in-laws had a Car Wash Asylum Iraqi in their midst. Bore them a grand child. Until his car wash was police raided, his mortgage free house in the South East confiscated, all the fake passports and documents confiscated (that were serving as a gate-way to other criminals). Went on the run. Never an honest day's work despite all the bloody welcoming.

@EllenVannen I suppose you OK with that? What pushes you to turn a blind eye to the cultural component of some failing Utopian ideas? What allows you to be immune to the decaying communities around you? Do you not live with us - the average working people?

You think Australia doesn't have asylum seekers or cash-only nail salons? LOL.

QueenCamilla · 10/08/2023 14:05

Blossomtoes · 10/08/2023 13:38

Those stats are seven years out of date and the term “unemployed” is misleading. Unemployment and economically inactive are different. Just because your views are endorsed by a third party doesn’t make them any less racist.

Show quote history

I can tell you my stats as of today.

The Romanian House next door:
5 adult men
1 young adult man and his girlfriend
3 adult women
2 children
0 Elderly, infirm or disabled

Out of all of them 1(!) person goes to work. Sorta' goes to work...It's one of those comes/goes at night in a private drive car type of jobs.

I'd like to know how do they survive. Sounds like a right Economic Migration success to live off fresh air in the back garden!

Iwasafool · 10/08/2023 14:06

Clavinova · 10/08/2023 10:52

Iwasafool
And that was headline news because it wasn't very much like standard student accommodation

The Exeter University students had to pay for their own accommodation though. Also, I posted earlier that we went to view St Andrews and Durham Universities - both had shared bedrooms (luck of the draw I think as to whether students were allocated a shared room or not).

The OP said it looked like standard student accommodation, there might be shared rooms but that isn't standard. Most rooms are single occupancy, many are ensuite. I've probably been round 12 universities with my kids, one had some shared rooms (very much a minority of rooms) they didn't have bunk beds, they were bigger than the rooms on the barge, they didn't have 4 to a room. They provided some privacy with dividers, bit like the ones you see recommended on here when kids have to share rooms.

So no nothing like standard. Did the rooms you saw at St Andrews and Durham have 4 to a room, how big were they?