The immigrant barge - what’s actually wrong with using it?

[NC523]

Educate me!

I looked at pics from the inside, it all looks very much like standard student accommodation to me, including common rooms/relaxation areas/health support on board. Residents can go on & off the boat, it’s passed fire etc safety and been used to house people in lots of other situations. I don’t understand why people think it’s not ok. Can anyone explain please?

You responded to my post as if you had made the original post.

Fine, the original claim that the Bibby Stockholm was used in the Falklands is false.

HTH.

You know, all I was expecting was an "Oops, sorry, I misunderstood, I see now it wasn't you making the claim I'm trying to refute, it was somebody else"..🤔

FYI (though having my head bitten off once heaven knows why I should help you with your argument now..) I think the Coastel barges (I think there were more than one) got phased out around the time or just after most HM Forces moved to RAF Mount Pleasant in the mid/late 80's so the chances that the Bibby Stockholm in use now was down south is close zero.

HTH (again)...

@jgw1 So why do people complain that asylum seekers are economic migrants, if most don't object to economic migrants

Because one group can contribute to a country economically, whereas the other group cannot.

I’m not in the UK but we have the same issues. There is a proper process that people use, are accepted and welcomed. Essentially migrants who have passed the skills test that we need to plug gaps currently. That is very different to asylum seekers who pass through several safe countries to get to one because they perceive they will be better off financially, as opposed to being safe, and speaking English is generally not a factor as most don’t.

The route for asylum seekers is get to the nearest safe country and then apply for asylum via the official channels. Sure, it takes a long time as processing takes years with the current lists but they will be ‘safe’ for those years. The vast majority do not speak English so are not wanting to come because of a common language.

To discourage people from circumventing the process, and particularly targeting the smugglers and to try and shut them down so more lives are not lost at sea, if you come by boat you don’t get to stay. You are sent to a nearby ‘safe’ country where our Government pays for them to stay. It’s shithouse, zero economic prospects there, but it is ‘safe’. It’s meant to be the ultimate deterrent basically, to stop further boats. For those who come by plane, if from countries where you can’t possibly make an asylum claim such as UK, the government pays for a prioritised seat on the next plane back, or if making an asylum claim they are put in a detention centre. They stay in the detention centre for years possibly while the claim is processed. You can’t come and go freely into the community. They are given English classes though, kids are schooled and the government provides medical care and the facility is no worse than any regular gaol from a fire safety perspective.

As i said, relatively safe!

Are you suggesting we take in everyone from any country who is threatened with arrest/oppression if they protest?

We are not responsible, we changed the law to allow this to happen and then extended who is allowed to come here, no checks, no visas, just turn up, its causing huge issues for councils and housing stock.

Anecdotally (yes yes i know!) a lady i know who has come from HK under this scheme, fully supports the Chinese state and thinks China is too weak against the protestors, her children are joining her soon & they are, apparently, of the same opinion.

We shouldn't be encourage business there, should we as its such an awful state but we do.... but inviting in up to 5m HK Chinese is very stupid, we are sleep walking into yet another immigration crisis.

has it escaped your attention that they consider themselves, quite rightly, to be British nationals?

How would you ( assuming you are a British national) feel if the government told you today, o, we are giving you to the chinese government now, but don't worry, they have promised us not to imprison, torture and execute you... then a few years later, you find they are indeed intending to imprison, torture and execute you.

You would, quite rightly, feel entitled to return to the UK government to claim protection

I wanted to say the same. People on here hating refugees equally hate benefit claimants or council house occupiers - anyone who is, in their mind, needs help "from their pockets". They might claim otherwise, but they do.

The barge itself is, basically, a prison. Designed to be as awful as possible without actually being a prison. Crammed rooms, no access anywhere, nothing to see out of the windows, nothing to do just sit in the room indefinitely taking turns with your inmate using one chair provided - not for a few weeks, but years and years. And - get this - people who already on it did not "throw their passports away", they are from Syria, Afghanistan, etc - and they came here on planes. They are as genuine asylum seekers as can be, doing things "legally".

The world is going tits up - wars, fires, heat - so there will be more and more people migrating north. Its inevitable. Sticking them into prisons will not solve anything. The only way to deal with the issue of people coming to claim asylum here is to create an efficient and quick system to process claims, and not piss millions of pounds up the wall with insane Rwanda flights or the prison barge. But sorting the bureaucracy out is a bit boring, isn't it? Doesn't generate catchy headlines in DM. And requires training, organising, planning. Not something our dear government is capable of.

We are not an overpopulated country
Not this again. Yes we are. We cannot feed all the people who live here from the resources of the land we control. That’s the definition of overpopulation. We cannot house them. The point about the ageing population does not in any way change ecological fact. Nor does any existence of countries elsewhere which are also overpopulated, eg India, change it, although climate change is real and westerners bear responsibility for that. There are still too many people here now, in a continent where most countries run food surpluses.

I wanted to say the same. People on here hating refugees equally hate benefit claimants or council house occupiers - anyone who is, in their mind, needs help "from their pockets". They might claim otherwise, but they do.y

This is silly imv - deliberate baiting talk. It's like saying anyone who thinks male rapists shouldn't be allowed to regender and be held in women's prisons is transphobic. Just a wind up really.

I have grand children I want them to have the best life and opportunities they can. I can see that immigration is going to happen to all wealthy countries but people without id or passports, possibly with criminal records in their own countries, many wanting a better quality of life not refugees, need to be controlled. Or we will become the overcrowded, corrupt countries that they are fleeing. We are a stable law abiding country but should our population double with many incomers having quite different expectations and standards of life I see people in the long term taking the law into their own hands and chaos.

Immigration needs to be controlled.
'so there will be more and more migrating north' - I agree with this bit.

"We cannot feed all the people who live here from the resources of the land we control."
Out of interest when was the last time the UK & NI could feed all the people solely from its land?

we could feed our population from the resources of our land, but people don't want to eat so much mussels, pigeons, lava bread and mushrooms.

Its a choice, because we are wealthy and privileged ( and not over populated) we have that choice.

So don't play that "can't feed ourselves" card, it is nonsense

@Bubblyb00b The only way to deal with the issue of people coming to claim asylum here is to create an efficient and quick system to process claims,

So how can people be 'processed' when no-one know who they are?

Are you sure the U.K. is moving further to the right. The Tory party is but they are on course to get annihilated at the next election whenever they call it. The electorate is largely left leaning with the Tory party losing votes to lab, Lib Dems and greens all over the place.

I haven’t yet seen a representative poll where a majority of people support putting asylum seekers on an unsafe barge.

@Nevermay go and read the governments reports on food security in the U.K. If we relied solely on the resources here we would have a completely stripped ecology, and major battles to control new growth. You are the one talking nonsense.

Ditto

https://www.in2town.co.uk/skegness-news/skegness-residents-not-shocked-after-man-charged-with-rape/

This is what happens when people of different cultures are allowed into UK

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/derby-news/townsfolk-live-fear-gangs-single-7774578

The Tory party is but they are on course to get annihilated at the next election whenever they call it.

Not if we keep getting headlines like those in above posts
Labour have no great ideas and I wouldn't trust Greens with anything.

Quite interested in how you “speed up” claims.
How do you do that with people with no paperwork from countries in crisis? How long does it take to prove that someone isn’t pretending to be someone’s cousin when clearly you have a photo of them committing some sort of war crime.
How do you stop people getting off the bus and staying with their actual cousin on the other side of the country. Or someone they’ve arranged to work for back in the home country.
Genuine legal solutions take time and process. Or we could give out passports to whoever survives the journey. Would that be fairer?

Alexandra2001
we changed the law to allow this to happen and then extended who is allowed to come here, no checks, no visas, just turn up

Where did you read that the Hong Kong applicants do not require a visa? As far as I can see the route has always been described as a visa route:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55847572
https://news.sky.com/story/government-extends-hong-kong-visa-route-to-young-people-born-after-handover-to-china-12664726

Is biometric information required?
Yes.

Immigration Health Surcharge payable?
Yes, payable in full on application by each applicant.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hong-kong-british-national-overseas-route/hong-kong-british-national-overseas-route-accessible

Financial requirement
This section tells you about the financial requirement for the Hong Kong BN(O) route for entry clearance and permission to stay.
There is no set level of funds an applicant must hold. However, all applicants, including their dependants, must be able to prove they can adequately maintain and accommodate themselves in the UK for 6 months without access to public funds.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/hong-kong-british-national-overseas-route

Alexandra2001
inviting in up to 5m HK Chinese is very stupid, we are sleep walking into yet another immigration crisis

Stephen Kinnock (Labour's Shadow Immigration Minister) has been complaining that the Hong Kong scheme is inaccessible to low income families. Also here;

Stephen Kinnock, shadow minister for Asia and the Pacific; Holly Lynch, shadow minister for immigration; and Steve Reed, shadow secretary of state for communities and local government [wrote in 2021]:
Unless the government reduces financial barriers, the BNO visa route will only be available “for the rich,” pointing to the fact that a family of two adults with two children would need to pay almost £16,000 up-front to meet the requirements.

So - if you are worried about more Hong Kongers having access to the scheme then don't vote Labour at the next election.

Here we go again
https://www.wigantoday.net/news/mp-calls-for-wigan-hotel-to-stop-housing-asylum-seekers-after-incident-involving-schoolgirl-3391661

Fucking hell this thread. I work with refugees and asylum seekers and their stories are complicated and frightening and not mine to tell on some social media bunfight, but fucking hell, MN. They are human beings. It could happen to anyone. It could happen to you one day.

And people will take the law into their own hands;

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11739567/Riot-sparked-local-fury-schoolgirl-posted-video-saying-sexually-harassed.html

Someone mentioned Hong Kong;

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/new-uk-legal-advice-could-open-door-to-hong-kong-citizens

Because asylum seekers and economic migrants are two different groups of people, stating entirely different reasons for leaving their country?
Genuine asylum seekers don’t come into a country because there are staff shortages in that country’s health sector or not enough teachers or whatever.
They come because they’re not save in their own country. They might have the professional skills needed in their host country or they might not - that’s not the point.
Whereas it’s very much the point when it comes to economic migrants.
From the economic perspective, it doesn’t really make sense to let people in first and then check if they have the qualifications needed on the local labour market. What if they don’t?
Genuine asylum seekers are a different story.

What “could happen” are you talking about? Because it did just happen to the Ukrainians and the doors are wide open.
If you mean being born in a country where the men are ruining it with war and guns not so much. That’s a political solution which frankly, good luck with.