Carla Foster being released

[JustMint]

Court of appeal have reduced her sentence!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-65581850

Exactly. It's a want not a need unless there is a grave threat to the mother's health and life carrying the pregnancy to term.

And there is no comparison to the case of that poor teenager from Herefordshire who was a child living in an abusive family situation at the time.

How many of you passing judgement have been in her situation? It’s easy to say what you think you would do but until you are actually in that position none of you know.

I admit when I first read about this case I did wonder if there was a backstory the courts knew of but we aren't privy to. Poor mental health? Domestic abuse? Rape, even? It's not been made clear either way.

Prison being the right sentence for her? I don't believe she is a threat to anyone else. Most women who have abortions aren't the sort of people who are dangerous generally. I can think maybe a custodial sentence being a deterrent maybe? That would depend on why she did it . I'm not convinced that she didn't seek help earlier because she was "embarassed." Must have been more going on. Or she was just callous. Nobody has an abortion due to embarrassment in this day and age. There isn't the stigma there used to be about illegitimate births.

How many have mourned the loss of a much wanted pregnancy. How many have buried their stillborn child and live with the grief.

You cannot empathise with these women and then begin to justify what she did.

What situation would that be?

No. Just because other women have losses doesn’t mean you get to detract from what another person is going through.
Secret/hidden pregnancies is surprisingly common and is a nightmare to go through. I know first hand.

It really is amazing the number of people on the thread who think they know better than the judges involved if prison was appropriate or not.

If the woman thought the abortion was necessary, then it was necessary, there are all sorts of reasons, non of which are our business or which we have a right to judge.

I think there must be a lot about this woman's background that we just don't know. It boggles my mind that a sane, healthy middle aged woman with full autonomy would not get earlier help because of so called "embarassment." Must be more to it. This isn't a 15 year old or someone living in a strict religious country.

I know first hand

I'm sorry you went through that.

You seem a compassionate decent person, I'm sure you had a good reason for keeping it secret.

Undoubtedly there will have been a lot going on in her background.
it’s hard for me to say more but I don’t think she should be judged so harshly. I have been there. Looking back I can’t believe it but I was not ok. Thankfully I have a beautiful 9 year old with me and I had MN to support me when I was in crisis. It could have ended very differently.

It’s actually surprisingly common for women in their late 30s/40s to have secret pregnancies. When I had mine my health visitor told me I wasn’t that special and I was her third in the village that year 😂

Do many of them manage to keep it secret up until really late though ? I kind of get the not realising you're pregnant when in the first trimester. I suppose not everyone gets morning sickness or swollen ankles though.

I’m glad she’s been released. I suspected, and indeed hoped, that she would be.

Isn't it just!

She belongs in a psychiatric hospital, not in prison. While I understand termination (within legal time limits), I'll never understand how someone can kill a human being that is almost ready to be born. Poor poor woman. I think she is fucked and will never get over it...

@YetMoreNewBeginnings one woman did something incredibly immoral and dishonest.

"Male crimes" have absolutely nothing to do with this. In fact they're punished more harshly. Only a woman is to blame for ending the life of a baby in her whomb.

If a male killed a newborn or killed a woman who is pregnant, he'd be tried and sentenced for homicide and double homicide in the latter.

Men are not exempt from punishment...This woman for some reason is.

I have nothing but sympathy for Carla Foster to be in such a situation is terrible

Then to have to go to prison. Your photos all over the news and on social media

its appalling she wasn’t treated with more compassion from the start

being pro choice isn’t always comfortable but the thought of women being in such a desperate situation and choices are taken away from her is far more concerning

I am a little confused here. Don't abortion tablets simply induce labour / expulsion of uterine contents? If the fetus is non viable that will obviously lead to it's demise. But they don't directly cause fetal death.

In this case the fetus was of a viable gestation. Most babies born at this gestation would be born alive. And it would appear an ambulance was called when she was in labour? Surely she may have anticipated the infant would survive and merely wished to end her pregnancy? If she called or asked for an ambulance to be called then in a sense she sought medical help for the baby also?

Obviously it would have been better to have laboured under medical supervision but having a bad labour outcome, however irresponsible your choices leading into that outcome isn't and shouldn't generally be a crime, and particularly if medical help is sought (which it seems like it was). If she has asked for medical induction of labour through a sanctioned route for eg mental health there would be no issue here. She would have the right to decline interventions such as CS etc. So I fmt understanding is correct then no I don't think CPS was right to prosecute. I don't think wishing to end a pregnancy should ever be a crime.

I make a distinction between wishing to end a pregnancy (which I personally feel should always be a legal choice) and feticide (which sometimes may result from the former, but if independent of the former has the potential to be a crime depending on circumstance). Eg I would feel differently if she took something to intentionally kill the fetus (at 33/40) before birth but I'm not sure that is what has happened here?

There are women serving much longer prison sentences for shaking their babies to death. They too were under severe stress. They too have a other children who are now separated from them. I have sympathique, but I'm struggling to see how this case is different.

We don't know if she was assessed as being mentally ill or not. I think there must have been something going on with her mind for her to do this and claim a lame excuse about feeling embarrassed. But the truth is we just don't have that information.

I'm glad you're ok now. I have skim read your other thread and I can see you where in a legitimate difficult situation . I don't judge people like you or @nervousneave either.

UnMumsnetty hugs to you

I feel on the face of it she deserved to be in prison for a bit at least as a deterrent/reminder of the law.
Maybe we didn’t all need to know her identity.
We don’t know her personal facts but the judge did.
I don’t think abortion pills should be available by post. This in my view is not really following the law as it is intended on abortion. People should be assessed, have a ultrasound and get counselling.
This will happen again and again if this practice is allowed to continue.

I just read that she has an autistic child, so maybe prison sentence not the best thing for her family ? I'm guessing that is what was meant by extreme mitigating circumstances.