What do you think if someone went to Oxford or Cambridge University?

[ephemeris]

I've been genuinely shocked that some people find it hard to believe that you don't have to be posh to go to Oxford or Cambridge. I went to Oxford for my first degree, where I met dh who was doing a masters course. We then both moved to Cambridge when he did his PhD there.

I'm from a low income household in the NE, went to a shockingly bad state comp, and somehow fluked a place at Oxford in the 90s.

Usually people have no idea what university someone went to, but if it ever comes up and we mention we went to Oxbridge, people are a bit 🤔. I even had a colleague at work once, who told me it was my round at the bar because I must be able to afford it if I went to Oxford.

@Whataretheodds “It was also the first place I set foot in that didn't make me feel like I was socially unacceptable for loving learning and wanting to stretch myself academically.”

This is a really good point and almost certainly the thing I benefited from most at Oxford. Lots of people who are not just bright but also very keen go through school if not being actually picked on for it then certainly feeling like they don’t fit in. It can be a really pleasant surprise to find yourself surrounded by people who are just as geeky as you and actually like you for it. Not that that doesn’t happen at other universities, but I made friends at Oxford despite significant class differences because we all felt the same way about learning.

That's weird that PP assumed I meant private school educated, or resented that history.

It turns out that most the people I work with were private school educated, but I couldn't (can't) tell because I'm foreign. I just get reminded once in a while. I don't know if they are rich or not, but a high % also put their kids thru private schools. My DC partly went private, too (but few in my origin family did until recent decades).

Within this cohort of colleagues who were private-school educated and tend to send their kids to private school, some of the oxbridge educated ones stand out. For snobbery & self-confidence &/or self importance.

Anyway, people like me don't go to Oxbridge (or Ivy League). I find people who did go there to be curiousities, because I don't know many perhaps.

People like me thinking will only disappear when people like you stop thinking that way. It impacts so many people in society who would really benefit from what Oxbridge can offer and it is ours - top universities in the world are ours - and we pay no extra than other universities.

Most universities should be like this and if they aren't they really shouldn't have university status

I grew up in rural Scotland. Generally in the 80s and 90s Scots stayed in Scotland for University because we do Highers rather than A levels. But I then went to Oxford to do a D.Phil. On my first night out at home after I got the offer an acquaintance said 'I didn't think you'd speak to us any more now you're going to Oxford'.

DD1 is in Y10 and her careers advisor was asking about her work experience which she did at my work and then what my career path had been. When DD said DH and I both had D.Phil.s from Oxford (and DH has a masters from Cambridge) the careers advisor immediately assumed DD would apply to Oxbridge whereas DD is still not sure which A levels she is going to take.

I think they’re clever but the only ones I’ve knowingly met have been very rude or socially awkward/inept. Might just be a coincidence!

I'd guess the socially inept types are more likely to be 'knowingly met' than their more socially aware classmates.

How much were any of them like Sheldon Cooper from big bang theory ?

@Wenfy Could your systems be improved? If that many Oxbridge find them problematic, may be they are trying to tell you something? They will certainly be feeding that info back in their own networks and I wonder whether they are trying to tell you that something is not working at yr end as it should. Oxbridge burnout is strange because if it was going to happen anywhere it would be at the university, not afterwards. Nothing in a job will be as tough as the university - it’s designed that way so that they are prepared for worst case scenarios and can keep steady in them. I’d say they are desperately trying to tell you something. If all non Oxbridge employees from one section had the same result, you would look into why it’s happening.

Also, why keep employing them if they burn out there? Is it the wrong subject/ a post grad role?

I don't really think anything apart from wistful memories of a boyfriend (state school) who went to Cambridge and invited me as his guest to a May Ball. Happy memories.
A friend's DS went to Oxford .. he is obviously bright but an insufferable arrogant selfish git ... also went to state school .. but he's done incredibly well for himself if you judge success by salary. But he would still be an arrogant git if he'd gone to the local ex Poly.

Maybe they're being bullied by people who look down their nose at them like some form of reverse snobbery...

The problem is I work for a popular hedge fund that Oxbridge Grads flock to but they tend to want the Year 2 or Year 3 salary of being a Quant without putting the work in during Year 1. There is also a tendancy for Oxbridge to not develop the social / soft skills of students - so we often get absolute prats who can’t work with anyone. And don’t take guidance / feedback / constructive criticism well.

I can see some of this behaviour in some of the posts on this thread from people claiming to be from Oxbridge - I believe they are because my experience of Oxbridge grads has been they are rude, arrogant, not curious enough, and not willing to engage.

We’re still in the process as an organisation to attract a more diverse UK grad pool but roughly 50% of our UK grad intake still comes from Oxbridge and you can almost guarantee none of them will be around by Year 2, yet we have an almost 100% retention rate from Imperial / LSE and other red bricks whose grads we also attract in droves. There also tends to be a huge difference in mindset.

As an organisation, we initially assumed the difference was private education vs comp but have since crunched the numbers and found we don’t experience this problem with private school students from other institutions. Next year we’re going to trial not taking kids from Oxbridge at all.

The CEO is an Oxford grad. He’s given this 5 years and the problem still hasn’t improved. Even he’s realised we need to give up

Could part or is part of their attitude Im right I know this, rather than in a team building setting I know this information which may be of help, without annoying everyone else?

The reason I ask this is so I can understand and be more diplomatic when conveying information to various team members etc.

Maybe there's a difference between grads who want to be a quant and those who wouldn't touch that role with a bargepole. (that's a maybe obscure joke I can never resist).
Seriously There is also a tendancy for Oxbridge to not develop the social / soft skills of students - so we often get absolute prats who can’t work with anyone

• this really isn't at all in line with what I've observed but my sample doesn't include any wannabe quants.

If they went in the 90s I would just assume they are bright.
If they went decades ago then I would assume they came from wealthy educated families.

Nothing in a job will be as tough as the university

I totally disagree. I did an arts subject. It was intellectually rigorous but it was perfectly feasible to fit in the work and a social life without burning out. Sciences and Med more challenging.

My first full time job was much harder on me, energy-wise.

It does depend. My dd did engineering, she's working full time as an engineer but seems to have quite a bit more time and energy for activities after work and at the weekends. I think she had a reasonable work-life balance as a student (covid permitting) but she did have to work hard and be pretty disciplined.

I think the structure of the science degrees - far more lectures and scheduled classes but complemented with individual study - set you up better for work than acres of unstructured reading and writing.

You write a mean essay.

I used to be impressed if someone went to Oxbridge….these days I’m a bit meh….know loads of super bright kids who didn’t get in and some not quite so bright that did. Loads and loads of other students get straight A stars too and get just as good an education elsewhere.

Lol the days of quants being number crunchers and maths geniuses with no social skills are over. Now we need people who can communicate and other universities are able to produce them - but Oxbridge seem to have absolutely no idea what a STEM job outside of the NHS actually needs.

Also, I think it’s losing its allure with a proportion of kids too - thought it would be right up my eldest’s street (plus potential choral scholarship) and they totally scoffed - ‘not my scene, thanks’….I should prob be relieved as at another uni they should also have time for a term time job which’ll put less pressure on me too😆!

Oxbridge seem to have absolutely no idea what a STEM job outside of the NHS actually needs.

Not from what I've seen, no moreso than other unis at any rate. I think you've got a biased sample.

I believe they are because my experience of Oxbridge grads has been they are rude, arrogant, not curious enough, and not willing to engage.

Maybe it is the combination of Oxford grads who want to be hedge fund managers rather than all Oxford grads

None of the Oxbridge grads I have come across in my working life have been rude or arrogant, but I have never worked in a hedge fund company.