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What do you think if someone went to Oxford or Cambridge University?

202 replies

ephemeris · 17/07/2023 11:11

I've been genuinely shocked that some people find it hard to believe that you don't have to be posh to go to Oxford or Cambridge. I went to Oxford for my first degree, where I met dh who was doing a masters course. We then both moved to Cambridge when he did his PhD there.

I'm from a low income household in the NE, went to a shockingly bad state comp, and somehow fluked a place at Oxford in the 90s.

Usually people have no idea what university someone went to, but if it ever comes up and we mention we went to Oxbridge, people are a bit 🤔. I even had a colleague at work once, who told me it was my round at the bar because I must be able to afford it if I went to Oxford.

OP posts:
Crummles · 17/07/2023 17:45

@Minutewaltz Oxford bursaries and scholarships are separate financial support programmes, and yes, parental income is checked before awarding bursaries. Scholarships are different and have additional or other criteria which the prospective student has to meet

Not all international students are wealthy, at least not by UK standards

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 17/07/2023 18:08

I’d think they were a) clever, and b) probably worked very hard, too.

I certainly don’t think ‘posh’. A colleague’s 2 dcs both went to Oxford, perfectly ordinary family, very small house, dcs both attended state schools.

YesterdayO · 17/07/2023 18:15

What do you think if some went to Oxford or Cambridge university?

@Whataretheodds wrote
”The thing is, when there was a genuine grammar school system and free uni tuition and full grants there was a lot of social mobility through Oxbridge...”

If they were born immediately after the war, say 1945 - 1955, I’d think they were probably male. 😀 Only 3 Cambridge colleges took women until 1972, so before that the male:female ratio was about 10:1.

If they were female and born then I’d think they were likely to be exceptionally clever.

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itsmyp4rty · 17/07/2023 18:49

Bright and keen would be my assessment. The only person I know who went wasn't in the least bit posh and did extremely well.

Pedallleur · 17/07/2023 19:15

The ones I was at school with who went to Oxbridge were smarter than me and worked hard after school studying. I admired them for their dedication. I just wanted to go out to gigs and read NME.

yanak8 · 17/07/2023 19:24

I remember reading about Edward Heath attending Oxford (his autobiography). His background was working class and I think he received funding and even managed to secure funds (sponsorship possibly Walls) to travel during the holidays.

I wonder how easy it is to manage now, from a financial point of view.

ErrolTheDragon · 17/07/2023 19:58

I wonder how easy it is to manage now, from a financial point of view.

Accommodation is often cheaper than at a lot of other unis, there are bursaries for those that need them and quite a few scholarships. They can work in the long summer vacation - some courses actively encourage this and the students can generally find paying internships.

As for not working in termtime ... what is the point spending full tuition fees on a part time course anywhere? Back in the day, we didn't have time for termtime jobs doing a science degree at a redbrick.

So... they should be fine, maybe better off than at other unis.

TheOutlaws · 17/07/2023 20:01

I think ‘did I go to uni with you or someone you know?’ Grin

I’m actually currently completing my masters (21 years after I finished at Oxford) in a completely unrelated subject at a post-92 uni. I’ve enjoyed this bit of studying far more than Oxford (wrong subject, wrong institution, just wrong).

TheOutlaws · 17/07/2023 20:05

wineschmine · 17/07/2023 15:53

@Whataretheodds well they struggle to hold down a job, which causes them untold stress and unhappiness.

To have spent that amount of money and effort on studying, I would say holding down a job would probably be minimum level of attainment.

A lot of my fellow students were very neurodivergent. I wouldn’t be surprised if holding down a job didn’t come easily to them, they really struggled with social interaction, communication and the nuances of relationships, plus a few of them burned out.

BarelyLiterate · 17/07/2023 20:15

DP went to Oxbridge, he was at one of the ‘normal’ colleges, not Trinity / Balliol etc. He’s fairly normal. Grammar school, not Eton / Marlborough. He also studied a STEM subject, not Classics or PPE or whatever poshos study. Most of his friends had similar backgrounds. Consequently, I know lots of Oxbridge graduates who are just normal people, not Boris / Rees-Mogg style posh wankers.

Brexile · 17/07/2023 20:46

@CleverKnot You're right about the photocopiers.

@MargaretThursday Good point about costs. I lived in for four years and bought nearly all my books second hand. Plus the libraries were so good that we could borrow lots of books that someone at another university would have needed to buy.

@Carleslireis Welfare teas and therapy puppies! That cuddly, woke Oxford sounds like something out of a comedy sketch, when I think how uptight and deliberately intimidating it used to be. I'm very glad though! There were women's officers in the JCR in my day too, but it was a total popularity contest for the "cool girl" types, plus it was the "ladette" era, so they didn't do a great deal beyond presumably bigging themselves up on their CV. I think you're right that cracking down on problem drinking (now thankfully waning anyway) is key to combatting rape culture. I don't know how the college would have dealt with rape allegations had those allegations ever been made officially, but among the students it was bragged and joked about - and if you objected to this, you were a prude. I'm not exactly from a sheltered background nor raised to be a feminist, and I found the rape culture shocking. Even post Me Too, there's no way I'd let my DDs go there (not that either of them are academic).

@yanak8 I suspect your friend who had a bad interview probably made the right decision, even if not necessarily for the right reason. If you're not studying for a very marketable degree it's probably not worth the investment of time and money, let alone the considerable stress and hassle.

Re Heath and his student freebies, in the 90s my college would have paid half the cost for me to visit Italy and/or Greece in the long vacation, but I would have had to come up with the rest myself, plus my parents forced me to work full time in all the holidays, so it wasn't an option. I sometimes wonder how the likes of Lord Byron or Oscar Wilde would have turned out if they'd had to work in a convenience store for three quid an hour instead of going on the Grand Tour!

@carduelis I get that too! They ask where I went to university, and when I say I went to Oxford, they say accusingly "You mean Brookes!" Then there are the neggy loser types who say things like "I can't BELIEVE you went to OXFORD and you don't even know [insert random fact about prog rock or whatever boring thing they're obsessed with]. My XDH was like this. In both cases, it's insecurity that causes the need to belittle people who they think are better than them in some way. It's why I generally don't tell people IRL, except except in certain kinds of gig work (supply teaching, museums) where questions about colleagues' qualifications are par for the course.

And Classics is most definitely the pinnacle of intellectual achievement, although I rather got lost in the foothills myself ;)

@AvanGelist Classics applicants had a one in three chance of getting in overall. There was often some positive discrimination in favour of state school applicants (as in my case) although in some colleges it worked the other way round. Entirely the luck of the draw if you didn't have any guidance about which college to apply to. This type of unknown unknown is a good example of why people who don't get in shouldn't take it personally, although social media must have reduced the unknown factors considerably.

Whoever said I was discriminating against old Etonians (the poor darlings) by referring to them as nasty and arrogant - well, all the ones I've knowingly met certainly have been. And I think they're all doing perfectly well for themselves with or without my approval!

EnthENd · 17/07/2023 20:47

If you went to Cambridge I will think you're probably a smart person.

If you went to Oxford I will rib you for "choosing the wrong university".

I don't volunteer my university unless asked. It comes up from time to time, and most people are more interested in why I'm in a career unrelated to my degree. (The answer's boring - careers in my degree field would usually demand travel and relocation that my family commitments preclude.)

carduelis · 17/07/2023 21:04

@Brexile I‘n pretty sure some of the people I went to Oxford with struggled to believe I went to Oxford… I’m sure you’re right that it’s just insecurity though. I think there’s also maybe the expectation that if you went to Oxbridge you have a tendency to peacock your knowledge somewhat (and to be fair I do know a fair few people who do this), so if you don’t that undermines the stereotype and confuses people.

What I also found was that most humanities students assumed I was completely illiterate because I did a science. I remember a historian looking at my bookcase and saying (totally seriously) “Have you actually read any of those?”. If I said I hadn’t enjoyed a particular book I’d invariably be told “well I wouldn’t expect you to, it’s quite subtle”. I don’t know whether this is unique to Oxbridge though or just happens everywhere…?

Brexile · 17/07/2023 21:21

@carduelis Well I did know a few scientists who liked to hold forth about the pointlessness of humanities degrees in general and Classics in particular, so I may have started to regard them as philistines. But looking at a bookcase and implying that the contents are just for show, even knowing that you have to cart it all to and from your parents' place every eight or nine weeks? Crazy! I bet that historian was male and (in his own mind at least) from a posher background than you? Some guys had trouble believing that we could be their intellectual equals.

Ibizafun · 17/07/2023 21:28

What does posh even mean? Well spoken? I'd just think they were bright.

AvanGelist · 17/07/2023 21:35

@Brexile 1 in 3? That's ... a very good chance. Really competitive courses have single digit acceptance rates!
I haven't been able to find recent figures for Oxbridge but LSE (supposedly requested by FOI, not on the official website) is in single digits for many of its undergraduate courses.

A lot of students, especially working class focus on degree subjects - because they need to earn a living. They also don't know that many graduate schemes take any degree.

It's easy for someone to get into Oxbridge if that's all they wanted - just pick one of the unpopular courses

Minutewaltz · 17/07/2023 21:38

Ibizafun · 17/07/2023 21:28

What does posh even mean? Well spoken? I'd just think they were bright.

It’s a widespread insult on mumsnet - not sure how posh people are supposed to react to it though. Maybe apologise profusely.

Indigotree · 17/07/2023 21:46

I keep my Oxbridge degree secret because of the abuse it can attract. Inverse snobbery perhaps, assumptions about background/wealth/class and probably misogyny (intelligent women are disliked my many).
I have friends from poverty-stricken and/or working class backgrounds who also keep their Oxbridge past secret for the same reason.
I do think at least when I went (90s) it was the only university I could have afforded to go to, as you only had to pay rent for 24 weeks. Other universities required students to rent rooms in the towns they were in, often all year round.

I did work in 'permitted' jobs while I was there (e.g. library shifts), but the tutors frowned on even that and didn't seem to grasp that I might not have enough money to eat otherwise. The sexism and misogyny at my college were appalling and it was a very depressing experience. Lots of snide comments from tutors about how we weren't supposed to be there, how we were distracting the real students (males) from studying.

RainyWeekend · 17/07/2023 21:54

Barold · 17/07/2023 11:14

I just think they’re clever and/or studied hard. I never think it’s about having money.

Same, and also very impressed.

Brexile · 17/07/2023 22:00

@AvanGelist The odds of getting into an unpopular course are probably still better than many would think, and it was an established ruse among private schools to cajole top students into applying for theology, for example. (They tried it with my friend, an atheist who had endured years of school chapel and her dad's reminiscences of his Oxford days. She chose to read English at Edinburgh, like a normal person.)

While graduate schemes might take any degree, some are more favoured than others. Our hypothetical theology undergrad might struggle, and I came away from the milk round empty handed. Don't underestimate the advantages of prestigious work experience placements and contacts, all of which state school students are less likely to have. Plus, I think there were only a couple of dozen milk round companies each offering a couple of dozen places on its graduate scheme, and that's not just for Oxford but for the whole of the UK, so pretty terrible odds for any given individual. And don't forget that having been to Oxbridge marked you out as "overqualified" for all but the most elite jobs, i.e. pretty much all of the jobs available to the average person, Oxbridge or otherwise, without contacts. (Not sure if this is still the case as there are more graduates and even fewer graduate jobs to go round than in the 90s.) So that theology degree could work out pretty expensive in the long run.

AnnaBegins · 17/07/2023 22:05

It's why I never ever mention it IRL. I recently applied for an internal promotion and so my seniors saw my CV for the first time. The ribbing I got about being posh confirmed why I still never mention it. I'm from a midlands comprehensive school.

Wenfy · 17/07/2023 22:07

Honestly my first thought would be ‘prick’.

Brexile · 17/07/2023 22:10

@Indigotree That's a really horrible thing your tutors said. :( My philosophy teacher did say something similar once, that he'd voted (unsuccessfully) to keep women out in 1977 and would do the same again. That was a conversation stopper. Oddly enough he was the nicest and most humane of all the tutors I had, and must have been less ancient than we all assumed, as he's still teaching there apparently. I wonder what he makes of the 21st century and whether he's still railing against the 20th!

Oblomov23 · 17/07/2023 22:14

Super bright, nothing more. Same as pp.

RampantIvy · 17/07/2023 22:18

Wenfy · 17/07/2023 22:07

Honestly my first thought would be ‘prick’.

Why?
Jealous?
Insecure?
Inverserse snobbery?

I didn't go to university and I don't agree with your view because I am a mature, secure and confident adult.

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