Police asking for an apology from ds

[Driventodistraction0]

DS (17) got into a scuffle at the weekend with a friend. Each hit each other once, no physical harm done. It was a stupid argument over a girl and we’ve said how disappointed we are and emphasised what harm for both of them it could have led to. He is feeling really bad about it, he has been really struggling with his mental health anyway. He has apologised to the friend and friend has accepted. The police rang last night and said they wanted to speak to DS (they were at the scene when it happened). The police have said that he will not be cautioned but that they want him to sign an apology. They said this apology would be seen on future enhanced CRB checks. He wants to train as a teacher so I’m gutted this is the case. We’re all for the police coming to talk to him but this is the first time he has ever been in any trouble ever. I’ve tried to Google how long this would stay on a crb but can’t find anything.

It might have been in his best interests. It’s unlikely he would have been denied legal advice. I’m not sure why you think your opinion is better than the police’s in this scenario, you’re listening to the story of someone who clearly thinks he’s not at fault

What a waste of tax payer money. Do not sign.

Oh come on. The police advice is not impartial, they have a very vested interest. They had a scared young man who'd never been in trouble before, in the cells and managed to persuade him to sign. They didn't "deny" him legal advice because he didn't ask for it, but they certainly didn't suggest he should have it, inferred that option would only be available to him should he be charged.

If it was in his best interests he could have signed after proper advice, why were they so keen to get it done without any?

I haven't RTFT so apologies if this has already been said

DO
NOT
SIGN
ANYTHING

without speaking to a solicitor first. Signing this apology is accepting fault/guilt. It stays on record and could be used in future.

The police did not witness the incident. If the other person hit first, surely it's self defence.

Not signing could result in a criminal investigation - it's a risk but if he didn't start it, I'd take the risk.

You REALLY MUST TAKE LEGAL ADVICE so you and your son can make an informed decision.

Good luck

I’m wondering if the other parents don’t feel it’s over or that things didn’t go the way that you understand them to have OP and have asked for your DS to receive additional resolution without going as far as being charged… ?

OP, don’t listen to this. This comment is entirely inaccurate - firstly, community service doesn’t exist for under 18s. There is a whole youth justice system designed for children and young people. The 6 year thing is also nonsense - different guidelines exist for different offences in terms of when they become spent and you need to declare them or otherwise, but anything on your record can always come up on an enhanced DBS, it’s at the discretion of the officer in charge.

If your comment is an eye rolling one at me then it’s fallen flat because I don’t get it. The problem with this whole thread is that most people replying are making it painfully clear they have no knowledge of YOUTH justice, a statutory service that exists for exactly this, children in trouble with the police. There’s much worse advice in these replies than my suggestion of giving people who literally deal with this day in day out a call.

So not arrested then ? Not being cautioned so what is the purpose of this apology in writing ? He has apologised to his friend. End of . In any case he is still a minor at 17 .
I would ask police the purpose of the apology and go from there Do they want his handwriting on record ? Why ? No caution = not official surely.
Get some advice from a solicitor some offer 30 mins free of charge

We had almost an identical situation in spring with DS, also 17. You don’t have to sign it. It’s a community resolution order. Refuse and ask for an alternative. They came to chat with DS at home instead and it was all dropped. If you explain about the teaching plans and offer say, to get him to do some volunteering, they should drop it. It’s about them getting a statistic for a resolved incident . Say no and be as calm and moderate with them as you can, explaining your reasons. Good luck

It wouldn't stop him going into teaching, he's 17, a child. And children make silly mistakes sometimes. A caution comes up but you said he hasn'tbeen cautioned; I've never seen a signed apology on one before.

This

OP said the other person is a couple of years older, so legally an adult.

I have a teacher friend. He had a criminal record when applying to train - drug related. Still got the job. So it isn't definitely a nail in the coffin.

That said, if he can avoid signing it he should.

17 is a grown man? 🙄

Get legal advice. My son got a letter, it wasn’t a police letter but a council one, but a police officer and a PCSO delivered it. I refused to let him sign it but it didn’t matter because it was still on record for 6 months. Obviously yours is different but I’ll say it again get legal advice. Good luck!!!

My DH was told the same l, if he refused they would put it through court which would take months to get round to court, all this utter bullshit.

I was livid he signed it, his brief told him not to but he was worried that it would mean a project we have ongoing would have to stop.

The police in this country are incapable of doing their job. I had a thread in legal that explains what happened, but he rang someone up who screamed abuse at our DS who has a myriad of additional needs, we made a counter complaint and they did fuck all to a grown adult for shouting at a 14 year old with disabilities yet made DH sign one of these over shouting at the adult for doing so with no threats. The original officer came to our home twice, and despite DH trying to get it dealt with for a week after that and cancelling our holiday, the officer rang and threatened him with arrest as he couldn't make it to the station when he demanded due to having to pick DS up from school. He was rude enough to say DS could walk and when told no he can't he has disabilities he wanted us to provide proof!

Do not trust the police. Not ever. Always question what they say and get it checked by a solicitor.

I would never have had that attitude if we hadn't just gone through hell due to them. I have an ongoing complaint regards it and hope to get the community resolution scrapped

Oh for gods sake- “do not trust the police ever” - bet if someone was trying to break into your house late at night you’d phone them and want them round. Such comments make the police’s job even more difficult and dangerous.

The police have a terribly difficult job to go, not helped by people like you. They have resourcing issues that make the NHS look over staffed and massively overfunded. Of course if someone is refusing to cooperate they’re going to get tougher. Surprisingly they haven’t got time to wait round for your DH to find a convenient time. Everyone they deal with has an excuse. Your DH is just another uncooperative person. They just don’t have the time to deal with people being uncooperative.

Everyday they have to deal with horrendous shit, young people dying, children neglected by parents drunk at 8am, people physically attacking them whilst idiots stand round filming them. They spend 99% of their time dealing with mental health issues in the community.

you do realise that lots of police are actually volunteers don’t you?

They do have a terribly difficult job, but they can blame their colleagues and their track record, not the public, for any distrust

Actually posts constantly off the police on social media make their lives even more difficult and dangerous.

My DH is a special - he was working 10pm to 7am last week (after a days work) he finally grabbed a coffee at 3am some stupid woman came up to him screaming in his face he should be out catching criminals! He’s verbally abused every shift. Perpetuating crap like “don’t trust the police ever” demonised them it makes them legitimate targets in the publics eyes. It makes me worried my DH might not come home to me and my son.

Hace you seen the amount of assaults by medical professionals? Maybe I should go up to a dr and scream in their face for grabbing a cup of water.

FictionalCharacter
What doesn’t make sense to me is why there’s any likelihood of a conviction. The other boy hit OP’s son too, in fact hit first, and OP’s son retaliated and the other boy fell, so it looks like only one punch by OP’s son. Despite this, and no suggestion of injury, OP’s son apologised to the other lad. Does this sound like the kind of incident that would lead to a charge for an assault or public order offence? And is that charge really likely to result in a conviction? If so I’m extremely surprised. I’m also surprised that the police aren’t interested in a signed apology from the other party who started this (incredibly minor) scuffle in the first place by throwing the first punch.

It could be that the other boy has already signed his apology or similar. And we are only getting one side of the story here - I'm not suggesting the OP is lying, but other people/witnesses may have a different version of what happened.

Also, if this 'fight' happened in a public place (a bar or similar) then it would be in the public interest to proceed with a public order offence. Society does not want fights breaking out in public areas.

If the OP's son does not want to go down the 'community resolution' route, then the next stage would be a PND ticket, summons or charge - depending on what they are eligible for.

It could be a case that there are other witnesses to this incident (staff maybe) or CCTV, police. So, if neither party want to pursue a complaint of assault, then a public order offence would be applicable with the evidence provided.

How the fuck was my DH an uncooperative person? I would suggest you either read where I said he sighed it despite his brief telling him he shouldn't, or you read my thread in Legal where I give more details as it was happening at that time so I updated. How he went to the station every day for a week and sent email after countless email trying to track the officer down.

And I did indeed call police when we caught a burglar - they never even logged it, much less attended our home. That individual went on to actually commit burglary 6 times, over the following 2 weeks, one violently. People only knew to look out for the vehicle involved due to a neighbour Facebook group.

As I said, I had no reason to not trust the even after that as I put the not logging details down to an admin error.

It's only this year that it made me sick that the police officer involved made every effort to criminalise my DH over nothing. He failed to get CCTV of the original incident or to take note of circuit of harrassment. We fully believe he is friends with the complains and are currently having this investigated.

Look at incidents with the met amongst others and their conduct towards women and victims? Still trust them?

How dare you!

How dare you!! My DH voluntarily put his life on the line for many hours each month. People like you make his job harder and more dangerous.

Your DH refused to go to the police station , of course he’s going to be threatened with arrest. How do the police know he’s going to turn up later, they’re used to dealing with other criminals.

Of course there are corrupt police, there are corrupt doctors, nurses, social workers, teachers, accountants, bankers, builders, taxi drivers…….

Have you got a clue how overstretched the police are?? How much they rely on volunteers? How often they are attached physically and verbally? How dare you make the hard working officers lives (who make up the vast vast majority of police) more difficult and dangerous? Your DH has obviously done something wrong in all this and seems willing to have admitted it. What exactly did he say? Im guessing he made threats. Maybe look at your DHs actions, you’ve made a complaint, they’ll look into whether the other person should face action too.

It's the police who make themselves untrustworthy especially the met. Also if he's a volunteer specialist he is not an actual police officer and shouldn't have responsibility 🙄

No, this is what makes it difficult. The refusal by so many officers and their families to acknowledge that there is a huge problem within the police services.

If the response to every wrong deed by an officer was OMG that's dreadful, throw the book at them, we don't want their sort in our service", maybe the public would accept the few bad apples theory, but it isn't and hasn't been for decades. The police have proved that the public shouldn't trust them over and over. So many times when officers have been guilty of dreadful things their colleagues knew, saw and either did nothing or positively supported them.

This is the problem, there is not a “huge problem” in the police services. Yes there is a problem, but there is a problem in every profession, paedophille teachers, doctors who commit assault, nurses who kill kids….. yet it’s only the police that are slagged off en masse for the actions of the few. Why is that?

Are police officers less than perfect? Of course, they’re human. But when you’re sat there slagging them off, there will be a police officer, probably just round the corner from you chatting to a kid to get them to school as the parents are sat pissed, out searching for a child who had gone missing from their bed in the night, knocking on a door to tell someone their loved one has died. Telling a mother her only son had committed suicide, breaking into a drug factory to take drugs off the street, being threatened with a bottle by someone with mental health issues who has been let down repeatedly by every SF ingle other agency. Maybe that’s why police and their families are so defensive- they see how officers are deeply affected by the job and the people they care for in the course of their duties. But you don’t give a shit about the overwhelmingly excellent and challenging work they do do you? You just want to slag them off because you have zero level of empathy