Police asking for an apology from ds

[Driventodistraction0]

DS (17) got into a scuffle at the weekend with a friend. Each hit each other once, no physical harm done. It was a stupid argument over a girl and we’ve said how disappointed we are and emphasised what harm for both of them it could have led to. He is feeling really bad about it, he has been really struggling with his mental health anyway. He has apologised to the friend and friend has accepted. The police rang last night and said they wanted to speak to DS (they were at the scene when it happened). The police have said that he will not be cautioned but that they want him to sign an apology. They said this apology would be seen on future enhanced CRB checks. He wants to train as a teacher so I’m gutted this is the case. We’re all for the police coming to talk to him but this is the first time he has ever been in any trouble ever. I’ve tried to Google how long this would stay on a crb but can’t find anything.

What else would you call misleading someone with less knowledge and experience, into signing a confession? However named?
Scam? Racket? Trick? Trap? Jolly jape?

There might not be a complaint for the assault, but if its a public order offence that is being investigated, then the state becomes the victim. If there are witnesses to this or CCTV, CPS will usually run with it.

If they sign a com res, they then won't pursue it to be charged. If one wants to take.the chances and hope it doesnt get pursued in court, then they are allowed to do so. Its a slap on the wrist at best. Seeing as he did do it, it's not exactly misleading them 😂 just take your anti-police trope elsewhere.

No I haven’t.

The CPS press charges and they are not doing that here lol.

CPS can press charges without victims consent but this is extremely unlikely as it’s much harder to build a case.

If you’re going to talk like you know it all make sure you actually do 😂

If they sign a com res, they then won't pursue it to be charged.
I'm going to assume the first they is OP's son and second they is police(?). If the OP's son signs the apology then the police get to close the case as solved, they found the guilty party and avoid all those tedious things like building a case. BUt what does OP's son get? A black mark on his record.

Seeing as he did do it, it's not exactly misleading them
I beg to differ the police are taking the approach of "don't be daft son, just sign this and it'll all be over" when exactly the opposite is true, over for the police yes, but not for the young man starting out with a note which will show up on CRB checks. This is what is misleading.
And "seeing has he did do" what exactly? He may have hit the other guy but what was the crime? It has not been defined and a case has not been built and tested so, he remains innocent until he either signs the apology (or accepts a caution) or is found guilty in court.

just take your anti-police trope elsewhere.
This is exactly the thread for healthy skepticism of the police. You are trolling the OP's thread. It is quite obvious that your 'just sign it already' position is not in the best interests of the OP's son. They should do nothing until they have received proper legal advice, and I hope that they do just that.

Wrong. Com res will stay on his record only until 18.

Even if he was over 18 when he recieved it, it is only in special circumstances that it would be revealed in an enhanced dbs check. Only if there is a safeguarding risk. Which rarely happens.

"Healthy skepticism of the police" doesn't involve a bunch of assumptions based on little knowledge.

CharlieRight
If his friend is not supporting a prosecution, then there is no assault. So case closed as victim 'does not support' - easy for all concerned and police just close the case as undetected.

If the police are wanting a community resolution - then there must be an active crime which needs closing - that's why I am suggesting it could be a public order offence. Section 4 or 5 of POA for example.

If he doesn't want to accept the community resolution for this, then the only outcome would be a PND ticket, summons or a charge to court. Then its up-to the court to weigh up the evidence and he may come out with a conviction.

What we are suggesting is that it may be easier for him to sign the apology (especially if he has admitted to hitting his friend) and have this minor 'community resolution' on his record for a while - rather than a conviction for an offence.

But of course - seek legal advice first before he signs and find out what the actual offence is.

As a former teacher (now retired) when I was in school management something like this might well make it less likely that he will be offered a job if it turns up on a DRS check. Of Cours eatings may have changed since I was involved in appointing teachers, but I'd be wary about allowing him to sign anything. At the very least get legal advice (maybe Citizens Advice?)

Don't sign!

Op it's called restorative justice it's not a caution

But yes it can still show on an enhanced dbs however if he is under 18 this shouldn't affect him into adulthood

Did he hit the other boy first ? Was it a schoolboy scrap ? If both boys are equally responsible I would either give both an RJ or neither !

How did police happen to be there ? I'd query.
Does the other party want to pursue a complaint of assault ? The police can only RJ if the "victim" agrees - ask some more questions.

I did a quick google on this OP.
The results came back saying that if your son fails to sign the apology they can take it though the legal system.
However, I’ve also worked with the police as a student and one thing I do remember was that they try to prevent children and teens from getting in the legal system in the first place.
For the police to be able to take it to court it needs to be in the public interest and with sufficient evidence anyway. Also, your sons friend doesn’t want to take it further and they both were equally responsible, so it would likely get thrown out.
I would seek legal advice and do not let your son sign that apology letter.

I would say no to signing anything - your son and his friend have worked it out - there is no need for the Police to be complicating a scuffle between buddies -

@Felix125
”What we are suggesting is that it may be easier for him to sign the apology (especially if he has admitted to hitting his friend) and have this minor 'community resolution' on his record for a while - rather than a conviction for an offence. “

What doesn’t make sense to me is why there’s any likelihood of a conviction. The other boy hit OP’s son too, in fact hit first, and OP’s son retaliated and the other boy fell, so it looks like only one punch by OP’s son. Despite this, and no suggestion of injury, OP’s son apologised to the other lad. Does this sound like the kind of incident that would lead to a charge for an assault or public order offence? And is that charge really likely to result in a conviction? If so I’m extremely surprised. I’m also surprised that the police aren’t interested in a signed apology from the other party who started this (incredibly minor) scuffle in the first place by throwing the first punch.

I have a young man who works for me (in School) who was put in this position. I'm furious for him.

He signed the form so that the situation could be closed and over with, as the police "kindly" advised him to. They have a solved crime on their stats and he has assault on his DBS. The context of the assault wasn't relevant to his work in school and makes no difference to his current employment, but it is bound to affect any future applications.

The police led him to believe the only alternative was a prosecution and court case, but IMO there's no way it would have gone to court, very little evidence, no witnesses who would have spoken against him, not in the public interest.

Don't let him sign anything without proper legal advice.

Don’t sign. Get legal advice. Don’t accept anything without legal advice from a decent criminal law solicitor. Contact law society for reputable ones in your area.

Do not sign and get a solicitor - on educational roles everything will show on the DBS and anything relating to violence (especially violence towards a minor which it will be if the other young person is also under 18) will have a massive impact on his employment options. I am not within a school but we have similar processes and this would be an automatic exclusion for us due to the nature of our work.

I'd speak with a solicitor for advice. It sounds like this is what used to be called an informal warning. It's the polices way of detecting a crime and getting their numbers up, when it wouldn't make the threshold to take it further.

Definitely don't sign anything.

Have they said they'll try to charge him if he doesn't sign? Doesn't the other person have to want to press charges for that to work? Get a lawyer.

I'm a teacher, been doing crb for decades.

Do not let him sign an apology.

Enhanced CRB stuff comes up for ever, he will not pass the crb clearance with that on there.
Spent convictions are never spent when you work with children.
He will not be able to work with children or vulnerable adults ever with that on there.
Tell the police he has already apologised to the guy and he has accepted it and that's the end of it.
Let this be a lesson learned in how not to ruin the rest of your life.

My gut reaction is ask them if he’s legally obligated to. If they say yes seek legal advice. If not say no.

He’s under 17 so I would say it all gets wiped when he’s 18.

I got a caution at 16 and a conditional when I was 17.

i had to get enhanced vetting for a job as a youth worker when I was 19 and none of them appeared on it.

My DH is a police officer - I just read him the line “Tell the police he has already apologised to the guy and he has accepted it and that's the end of it.” He spat out his tea. Like seriously? Some 17 year old who has committed a crime , it’s questionable whether he has a defence. The police have decided that it warrants action, but they are going to stop because said 17 year olds mum tell the police that she’s decided they should drop it. PMSL.

Do you work for the CPS? Do you have all the relevant facts and investigated them? If not, how did you reach that conclusion?

Conclusion? I said IMO it would never have gone to court and I explained why. I may be wrong, but it's very wrong that he was "persuaded" it was in his best interests to sign without any legal advice.