Police asking for an apology from ds

[Driventodistraction0]

DS (17) got into a scuffle at the weekend with a friend. Each hit each other once, no physical harm done. It was a stupid argument over a girl and we’ve said how disappointed we are and emphasised what harm for both of them it could have led to. He is feeling really bad about it, he has been really struggling with his mental health anyway. He has apologised to the friend and friend has accepted. The police rang last night and said they wanted to speak to DS (they were at the scene when it happened). The police have said that he will not be cautioned but that they want him to sign an apology. They said this apology would be seen on future enhanced CRB checks. He wants to train as a teacher so I’m gutted this is the case. We’re all for the police coming to talk to him but this is the first time he has ever been in any trouble ever. I’ve tried to Google how long this would stay on a crb but can’t find anything.

Whether they're 5ft or 6ft or 100ft tall it doesn't matter. A 17 year old is old enough to know not to punch someone and knock them over.

The diminishing of a violent act is depressing. No wonder there are so many thugs around if posters are just shrugging it off when their teenagers get into fights.

"But he's just a minor, you know" ...

Definitely don't responsibility🙄

You clearly haven’t read my posts about the legal position re self defence-we don’t have enough information. On the face of it a crime has been committed, whether self defence stacks up as a defence for her son would be a matter of fact. The police who witnessed this would be in a better position to judge this. The guy who threw the first punch could very well have been acting in self defence.

Don't sigm anything. Get legal representation.

'17-year olds are substantially fully-grown men.'

Legally, for safeguarding and everything else, they are still children. Their height or weight is irrelevant

Oh I knew this wouldn’t take long. This is a real crime. An assault has taken place, an assault the same as those that have led to deaths. I don’t think that is a waste of police time if it deters a person doing this again.

You probably moan about police pulling over speeding drivers rather than investigating “real crime” forgetting 2 min later that speeding car could have wiped out a family.

if you’re that worried about police time, maybe volunteer as a special to help out!

'If he had hit a female would you call that a silly scuffle?'

He didn't though did he? He got into a scrap with a boy he knew, his own age.

Not a woman, not a girl, not a little old lady. not an eleven year old.

Have you explained to the police that he was provoked and his mates wanted to beat him up as well because he knocked him down?

The police are useless and you can't trust them. You shouldn't be bending over backwards for them it will not help your son. Get legal advice and don't allow them to bully a signature out of your son.

I wouldn’t be signing anything at all. I agree about legal advice but if you choose not to do that then do not allow him to sign a thing or talk to the police as all that will do is get information logged and could lead to something further happening down the line.

Ive already taught my kids No Comment until you get a solicitor.

You think the police don't do anything wrong there is no racism, misogyny or any illegal activity committed by the police force. My partner was stopped in London for driving a Mercedes and it was because of their prejudiced views. Women are now coming forward and saying they have been raped in police cells. How did they get away with doing that?

They are seventeen ! Not grown men.

Don’t sign it. Who is he apologising to?

Exactly this - and the earlier OP comment that it lasted 'a few minutes at most' - a few minutes of fighting isn't just one punch. I'd be very concerned if I found out my child's teacher was violent, and as a previous PP said, male violence is a massive thing, and if unchecked or excused, often elevates to include others.

Old enough to join the army and fight.

you do realise that it’s teenagers fighting that results in teenagers being stabbed? Are the police supposed to know when to intervene and when to not intervene? Does having a mum on here mean NFA even when she wasn’t there and doesn’t know wtf happened.

teenagers are not developed mentally and are much more prone to reckless and dangerous behaviour than grown men.

Everyone screams about the failure of services and agencies to prevent harm but equally screams blue murder about an intervention to prevent escalation.

@gytgyt incorrect. I have a conviction from when I was 30 that's spent and doesn't show up on my dbs checks

Don't let him sign it. A police caution/apology shows up on DBS checks. Point blank refused to have him sign it. You do not have to accept a police caution either. Don't let him accept a police caution either. If they have enough evidence and want to prosecute they can pass to CPS but they will just throw it out. He has apologised to his friend and will have learned from it. I'd be pointing this out to the police.

Oh what fantastic advice. Someone pointed out their DH in similar circumstances went along these lines and ended up with a conviction when it went to court.

Theres been an assault, a criminal act now the DS can try and argue self defence which we haven’t got enough evidence to conclude on. But it is a very risky strategy. A 17 year olds mum shouting “we know our rights” is hardly likely to be conducive to the best outcome. This will probably have gone through a Sargent the police are saying what the position is. They’re unlikely to back down to a 17 year olds mum

sign and admit NOTHING, speak to a solicitor, thats the only advice you should be getting from anyone

This is a totally disingenuous comment and you know it.

The point is that, if two (or more) people are involved in a fight, they can't just decide between them that it's not a criminal matter. There are wider consequences.

And I'm not interested in a bunfight, thanks. Enjoy your day.

I’d get a solicitor. It seems perverse that your ds would face some sort of record for this considering the crimes that go unpunished and unrecorded. I was nearly the victim of insurance fraud a few months ago, has concrete proof of everything, police didn’t care. I had video evidence of a crime as well. I have been on jury service and watched a prolific sex offender go free on technicalities. My db is a teacher and a pupil had a mega row with another pupil and when my db tried to stop it all, he was assaulted - kicked, punched, hit, the lot. Police couldn’t be more disinterested.

also am I right in thinking it was an adult that hit your ds?

I taught a student who stole a lipstick from a shop at 14. She did it because her friends dared her to do it. She was told she was not being charged but then agreed to sign a police caution. She could not get a job as it kept being flagged on her DBs check. I spoke to a friend who is a police Sargent and he told me she should not have signed the police caution. He said if they had already decided not to charge it would have been dropped. Did you know if you are charged and found guilty in court the crime is removed after 6 years but a caution remains. A caution is worse than being charged and going to court because the most a judge would do is give community service and it would go after 6 years whereas a caution just remains there.

Even if I agreed with that statement , which I don’t, OP had a call after the event from someone who obviously does care about statistics, we know this because they came up with the whole apology ruse.

You don't have to agree.

It's not a ruse. It's a com res. Which is an actual thing.

caringcarer
Not sure what your friend is a sergeant of.

If your student was going to receive a police caution, then they must have admitted the offence - otherwise the police can not caution. If they have admitted the offence, then there would be enough to charge.

If that was their first offence, then you would use the caution first. Its like a first/last chance. If they have been cautioned before, then the next port of call is a charge/summons.

As a juvenile, cautions will remain on your record for a set length of time - just as convictions do.