How do you justify treating yourself above saving for children?

[brimfulofsmashaonthe45ish]

Hi,

This is not a stealth boast - I'm trying to readjust my mindset as this is causing marital tension

We have two young children - toddler and 8 year old

We live in an affordable forever home. 5 bed, good area - can easily meet mortgage, eat and pay our bills without a second thought. DH and I are both quite senior Civil Servants - our employment is secure, pensions taken care of etc.

We have considerable savings for our two children. Our home is worth £350k, we have another property worth £250k and £150k in savings to be left to them

We drive normal cars. Nothing flash. VW Passat and an Audi A3. Both around 5 years old.

I'm happy enough. I don't need a flash car. My husband is getting to the stage where he thinks we should have a nice Merc or BMW. Or we should take the children to Florida for a £10k holiday. Or basically that we work hard and it would be nice to have something to enjoy.

I see his point. I've never wanted to be the goose that sits on the golden egg, but seems I've turned into one.

Every purchase I make, I now feel guilty as I could have saved that money for my children. Ffs. This started with "big purchases" and has now filtered down to me box dying my hair as opposed to spending £100 in the salon. I love that I can put £80 into their savings. But ultimately I know there has to be a happy medium.

I do happily spend money on my children, it's myself that I cannot justify.

Appreciate this post doesn't read well and I don't mean to offend, I'm just trying to see how others live more in the moment.

You are in a privileged position to do both: saving and have fun. You might as well make the most of it! It's so easy to fall in one of the extremes but it sounds like you and your husband could meet half way and manage both saving and fun.

@Hugasauras

@brimfulofsmashaonthe45ish you sound like dh's parents. Every penny in the building society and memories for the dc of miserable young lives, tight shoes, hungry bellies and dull holidays is Brid and Filey sharing a cornet. FIL had over a million in the bank when he died. The house was like the house that time forgot.

Live a little, spread a little joy, have some fun.

Ps it drives me mad that my mum won't just spend her money now, I would much rather she died having enjoyed her life than left me a little more money

@Hugasauras I am so sorry be kind to yourself and hold right to those memories

think - how will you feel if you give your dcs a lump sum for their house deposit etc and then they buy the house, but as they didn’t need to use their own savings, buy their own £30k car?

your 8 year old will appreciate Disney far more now than when they are a teen. I’d wait another year max and take a toddler and a 9/10 year old. Toddlers will also enjoy just in a different way. (we missed our window really - covid hit now we can’t afford disney, but dc1 is year 8 and probably too old to make the most of Disney, it’ll be hot theme park rather than something special/magical as Disneyland Paris was when they were younger).

spend the money now. If you can save enough to mean they can have flexibility for uni (don’t presume current funding arrangements will be still in place in 10 years time), then let them build their own adult lives, having given them as many experiences now.

And remember you and your dh matter. you aren’t just parents.

@RosesAndHellebores

My children's clothes fit well. They're like models while I'm still wearing £26 Next jeggings from Sept 21

We do holiday but the holidays are carefully chosen, I see people spending £5-6k on a week all inclusive and I'm like 😮

Maybe I do need to readjust my expectations

I’m not going to pass judgement on your choice of car or holiday. They’ll be basic for some, extravagant for others, exciting or not. Same goes for how much you have already spent or saved.

but there is a happy medium somewhere. If you can afford the holiday / car / house / hairdresser / charity donations and still save … why isn’t that ok? whether you have £10 or £1000 spare at the end of a month, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Split some to savings and some to living.

its a huge privilege to be in a position to set your kids up financially…. of course it’s a security most folk would love to be able to provide. But at what cost? And I don’t just mean the cost of a hairdresser visit.

This.

Giving your kids a bit of a security blanket is great if you can afford it, but you don't have to put your own life on hold so that you can hand everything to them on a plate.

What memories of childhood do you want them to carry with them into their adult lives? And don't you think there is a value in them having to strive and succeed by themselves?

I would save like mad if I had a dc with SEN or disability who was not going to be able to provide for themselves in adulthood...I would not want them to be wholly dependent on the state for support. However, if your kids are likely to be capable of doing stuff for themselves, why wouldn't you let them get on with it? Give them a really good foundation and then let them fly!

If your husband is feeling that he hasn't had any rewards, could you think of it as a cost that brings happiness into the household (and/or reduces resentment and unhappiness) which benefits everyone? For your financial situation, a £30k car is a reasonable expense (assuming he doesn't want a new one every year!) and could help him feel like he has some reward for all his hard work.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2023/04/27/why-buy-model-y/

Have a read. This guy is all for frugal living & investment & he retired at something ridiculous like 36... but realised he was getting obsessive over saving & missing the fun.

TLDR version: you need to allocate yourself a fun account for holidays etc. I also have a small account for myself - £350 a month for my no guilt spends including drinks out, hair, makeup etc.
I find it really liberating and enjoy spending money a lot more this way.

Also (cautionary tale incoming) my dad had a huge stroke at 55 and all the plans to 'work now, have fun later' went down the pan.

Health is true wealth. Now is the time.

I think having the money has given us freedom, and I want my children to have that same freedom when they're my age.

I don't understand this. You don't sound "free" at all, you sound totally restricted by your weird obsession with saving.

If you pass it on to your kids, so that they feel obliged to save for their future children, then they won't be free either.

Sounds like an utterly miserable existence to me!

I think there’s a lot of thinking to be done about your values. Maybe you’re not a materialistic person - personally I’d hate to spend loads on a car or a holiday, even though I could. But it sounds also like you struggle to spend money on enjoying yourself and that’s not ideal. But maybe if you think really carefully about what’s important to you, you will find it easier to justify your decisions with money.

It’s also important to remember that the most important thing you can give to your child is your time and attention. Maybe instead of saving for them or treating them to holidays, you could consider working less or retiring early so you can be together more. Or spend money on whatever would give you more energy/time/headspace to give to your family or community in general (cleaner, babysitter, weekly massage, whatever!)

Finally, remember children benefit hugely from a bit of benign neglect 😉

Id do a holiday over a car any day (though not Florida - ugh).
I don't think kids are more valuable than you are. In the sense that you must sacrifice small pleasures in the way you seem to be. You have earned the money and have invested in a way that you will be able to help your kids get on the housing ladder for example, and contribute to their uni education.
It's not like you aren't buying your kids needed new shoes because you want to have a spa weekend.

You do.

It sounds quite joyless at the moment. Why must you wear ancient trousers and have "carefully chosen" holidays whilst squirrelling away your money for your children who don't need it?

Do you want your children to have memories of a relaxed and happy mum and lovely family holidays or a load of cash when you die?

My parents weren't wealthy and I had no expectations of a house deposit or enormous uni support (I worked three PT jobs to fund myself while doing my MSc) or whatever, but they were GREAT parents: we played together, read together, went on terrific days out or (cheap) hols in the UK etc.

They also (quite probably because we weren't wealthy) placed a huge amount of importance on a good (state) education, independence and work ethic.

Combined, this means that I am now, in my early 40s, a high earner - as is my partner - and we can afford to both live well and support my elderly widowed mother and my PiLs.

Carpe diem - buy the car, get the fancy haircut, go on the holiday. I'd far rather have my childhood memories, full of fun and adventure, than a hefty inheritance.

How are you saving for the DC? Junior ISAs? Why not have a max amount you put in each year and then spend the rest on experiences? Time is more important than money, it is the one thing you can’t buy.

In addition, a lot of people with young children feel this way aka wanting to sacrifice for them. Once they are selfish money grabbing teens who don’t value you as much you may feel very different anyway.

You can afford the posh holidays and the nice cars and to give your kids the freedom to study at any higher education institution they can get in. That is enough, who knows what will happen to the housing market once the baby boomers all start dying. We have a baby bust going on so your youngest will be entering a labour market without many young people to compete with.

how about you split your current savings into 3, one third goes to the kids future, one third goes on you/dh things now, one third goes on family experiences now - posh holidays (yes even the joy of the £6k all inclusive- that’s Neilson/Mark Warner money and pays for cracking kids clubs with sailing and SUP, not just childcare), theatre trips for eldest or days out to theme parks /zoos etc

if your kids end up earning well and being able to easily afford their own posh cars and house deposits, they will probably cherish more memories of that holiday when they were 9 and went in a speedboat with dad, or that day we went to the zoo and mum had booked for me to feed the black rhino.

RosesAndHellebores

It may be worth you booking a few sessions of counselling so you can learn to enjoy money and spend on yourself. You are worth it.

Hasn’t the last few years taught us that life is precious and could be unexpectedly short lived? You are being ridiculous and I think you know that. Enjoy the privilege that having disposable income gives you and the family - enrich your childrens lives with the opportunity to travel and make lasting memories. If your DH wants a car, get a car! It’s just stuff.

Your children are happy and well looked after, you have given them a good solid start.

Now as they grow up they will want to see parents who enjoy themselves, live their lives, have self compassion and self love, make the most of their time and resources - essentially you want to set a great example to your kids that life is for living and “treating” yourself kindly is very much part of that.
If they see you refusing to have your hair done, turning down opportunities or buying only cheap stuff for yourself out of guilt - what does that tell them? That you don’t value yourself.

Why don’t you just start by deciding on an amount per month which is “your” money. It doesn’t have to be loads but you have to spend it. Not on the kids either.

Start with £50 and say to yourself this is my money to do as I wish then spend it.

And if you don’t spent it, you have to send it to me!

your children, if reasonably bright and in good health will enjoy building their own lives! You do not need to try and feather their nests. Kids that grew up poor, ate ramen and baked potatoes while working bars to get through uni, nearly always grew up with much better resilience, greater appreciation and better executive functioning skills then the mollycoddled trust fund cohort. If you have some savings to sort them out with a gift towards their first home or an investment towards a clever business idea if they don’t fancy uni then more power to you! That’s great. They will appreciate adventures and experiences and fun in the meantime though. I was living in a grotty flat with an abusive boyfriend at 15, I’ve raised amazing children and self funded my way through HE to a PhD since then and I adore my modest home. My wealthy and well set up best mate from school died of an overdose in 2015 and never graduated or had a proper job.
extreme examples, but money isn’t the key to getting a good start in life, it’s personal qualities like resilience , critical thinking and strong work ethic. You can’t buy that.

I agree with much said by pp - you don't sound free you sound very restricted, you are modelling misery & guilt to your children, and the key is to find the middle ground.

Half for savings, half for spending is a decent starting point.

I think counselling could be very valuable.

I think there's a balance that's needed. You clearly are financially comfortable as we were and we also did not spend money on a fancy car, I didn't get hair done etc and clothes spending was average. But one thing we did was lots of lovely days out and around £10k a year on holidays and those gave the kids and us amazing memories. Places like Australia and the Great Barrier Reef and all the wildlife, Costa Rica rainforest and wildlife, Lapland at Christmas and another thing we did was David Lloyd though may not work if both full-time but that gave pools, aerobics, gym, spa and lots of kids activities. I got cancer a year or so back and I was so glad that we had those experiences but also that I had no mortgage.

DP’s parents started with very little and he grew up always being told that things were too expensive, and there was always a penny pinching background to everything they did (to the extent that his the complete opposite- but that’s a different story). Before he left school, they were able to buy a much larger home outright with cash but that didn’t stop the penny pinching. They spent their whole lives being frugal because it was such an habit for them, and ultimately became quite bitter and mean. There really didn’t seem to be much in the way of enjoyment. They left a lot of money.

Just a cautionary tale - shrouds don’t have pockets, and your kids could piss everything up the wall.

With kindness, maybe you do. I’d not dream of telling someone else how to live their life, in all of this I’m sure you just want to do your “best”. But “best” can look different.

there’s two words / phrases you use in the message above that I think sum up where you’re at ..
”still” wearing the Next trousers but kids are like models. Find the happy medium, no-one is suggesting you make your kids wear dirty rags whilst you float about in Versace gowns. If you’ve got the budget, you can all have new clothes. Of course, you might be all for sustainability etc and not be keen to go out and buy all new, great …. But that can be a balance too.

”carefully chosen” holidays …. Everyone carefully chooses their holiday, whatever their budget, and likes & dislikes. Don’t be comparing your choices. I’m middle-aged, never been to Disney, either as a kid or adult, I’d frankly rather eat my toenails. I’ve been to plenty AI resorts however. I’ve been able to afford more than I’ve spent, but I’ve carefully chosen what I will enjoy. You sound like you think certain choices would make you look frivolous or somehow not squirrelling away enough for your kids’ futures and we’ll all judge you for that. But actually it sounds like you can afford to do both, so book the holiday you’ll enjoy.