Beyond Titan - physics and the deep sea

[TokyoStories]

Continuing our crash course in all things deep-sea.

"Or maybe it has some damage that no one needs to see, like teeth embedded in it?"

Nothing with teeth is at the 1h45 descent mark.

@notimagain (who made very wise contributions on the MH370 threads) has noted that it is common practice in airplane disasters to cover the logo if it is visible. I assume therefore this is the same idea.

It's interesting reading Thinking Fast and slow.

Lots of interesting experiments in there - and getting people to change their mind.

Speaking up when there's an issue. Looking at all the evidence, the Dunning Kruger effect etc.

The human mind is fascinating.

@TheCheeseTray

I think I’ve given facts and figures in an earlier post but I posted a demo of the collapsing can which shows what happens when air pressure outside is 100 000 pascals (that Newtons per square metres) this causes the can to buckle - residue of coke is still inside the can and outside still exists. The sub would have had 310 times bigger (minimum) the pressure different from outside to instant. Any small fracture or hole or fatigue would have resulted in a coke can scenario but with about x400 the pressure different of the YouTube collapsing can. Human tissue is soft - bone a bit harder but easily crushed or imploded into crumbs - metals are much denser and are stiffer (higher young modulus that human tissue) and therefore also compressed with no air - a bit like the can - they will remain

no slow leaks it would have been immediate catastrophic failure

Yes - I myself posted a link of a tanker imploding. I understand the fact that in principle an outer shell would remain.

However, I would have though the heat generated from the implosion would destroy all human tissue/bone etc and taken out the fragile wiring/components in the end cone.

But what I don't understand is how (a) the wires/ components remained in that section and (b) they are saying there are human remains.

@notimagain (who made very wise contributions on the MH370 threads) has noted that it is common practice in airplane disasters to cover the logo if it is visible. I assume therefore this is the same idea.

@SheilaFentiman - was anything said about why this is common practice?

Where are the MH370 threads?

Crushed human remains - are still human

• you are forgetting the very very low temperature of the water - before and after

if I squeezed bits of orange instead the collapsing can - or a bit of melon with the rind - this what it would look like after.

the pressure is transmitted equally so the force per unit cm squared is equal but air collapses and wiring doesn’t so much - also much of the energy would be transmitted as noise

Have they discounted the possibility that they were closer to the surface than 1h 45 mins down , ie they had started coming back up because one of the early warning systems they supposedly had, had triggered? ie shallower than believed, therefore less implosion, but not sufficiently shallow to survive?

But what I don't understand is how (a) the wires/ components remained in that section and (b) they are saying there are human remains.

IANAS (I am not a scientist!) but from what I can see, the tail section which was recovered wasn't part of the pressurised capsule. From memory of the video of an implosion shared on an earlier thread, it looks like the main structure would implode (ie explode inwards) before exploding outwards. It's the explosion not the implosion that would impact the cladding and tail section as they weren't pressurised.

This is going to be a horrible question.

What do you think they would do with the remains once any forensics have been done?

I would guess there is not much to bury and they might not be able to tell whose remains are whose.

@TheCheeseTray thank you

From the BBC article today:

Some have described these panels as the hull fragments themselves, but pieces of the carbon fibre pressure vessel would be black, thick and rigid. These white panels in contrast bent as they were lowered on to the truck.

They call it the outer cladding.

Not a horrible question. There must be many eventualities when such very limited remains are recovered. Think of fires, plane crashes, etc. I suppose you bury/cremate whatever remains, and hopefully DNA analysis can be done to say who is who. Depends what exactly remains and whether DNA has survived the harsh conditions.

If it were me I’d want to be left on the seabed.

Which makes sense.

Which way did they enter the Titan?
Was it a hatch on the top? I am imagining a cylinder with the front and back attached on plus a hatch on the top. With cladding on the outside and the various gear attached to it.

I guess you have to make any connections between the equipment on the outside and the controls inside incredibly watertight. No simple holes drilled through and wires going through.

Thanks for the new thread! Has it been said whether they picked up the sound of the Titan's implosion prior to the 96 hour oxygen window ending?

Yes, a sound was picked up at the time all comms went down.

@cakeorwine it was on the top

This video by the Mexican YouTube shows the whole process of entering and being shut inside. A very slick video, but gosh it's so claustrophobic inside!

Interesting video on the wreckage

You can see the shell clearly in this video

He was on Expedition 3 which was cancelled

At 16 minutes, you can clearly see the external shell being lifted off - this looks like the pieces recovered.

Thanks! So did they know throughout the rescue mission about this sound, or was it only replayed when they found the debris field? I expect they couldn't really announce it, in case it hampered the rescue efforts.

Looking at the videos, they enter via the front hatch and that gets bolted.

Thanks for the video @cakeorwine - the reporter mentions the plexiglass window was missing from its casing - the window that Rush breezily said would “crackle” to give them warning.

Maybe it did crackle. Maybe the hull crackled. I’d rather think they had no warning whatsoever, just filled with excitement and happiness that they were nearly at the Titanic.

Or the back.

That is an interesting video - the part about the glass is very notable! The arms on that ROV are amazing.

It was only reported after the announcement of the catastrophic implosion, but I think those who needed to know did know, much earlier than the rest of the world. But I suppose they just wanted to be sure before announcing anything.