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Thread 27 - Sunak : the Ship is Sinking, Hold Your Nerve!

994 replies

DuncinToffee · 26/06/2023 14:10

In the voice of Cpl Jones.

"Don't panic Capt Sunak"

"Hold your nerve"

"They don't like it up em".

Previous https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4823678-thread-25-sunak-peerages-privileges-the-covid-inquiry?page=1

We have a choice between extremely bad alternative outcomes

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Thread gallery
47
newnamethanks · 05/07/2023 07:34

Piggy they're just doing their job. Truth twisting and distortion being a large part of it. One pp resorted to saying KS will be disastrous because, amongst other failures of character 'he is fat'. Obviously, KS can't compete with the fashion plate that is Bozo the Brave buy bloody hell. Through the bottom of the barrel and beyond. And if that's not bad enough dont forget the 🍺

Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 08:23

With apologies for the length of the post - I thought everyone should be able to read this.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/2023-07/NHS75%20three%20think%20tanks%20letter%205%20July%20final%20proofed%5B34%5D.pdf


Text of the letter in fullRt Hon Rishi Sunak MP
Prime Minister
10 Downing Street
London SW1A 2AA
Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer MP
Leader of His Majesty’s Official Opposition
House of Commons
London SW1A 0AA
Rt Hon Sir Edward Davey MP
Leader of the Liberal Democrats
House of Commons
London S1A 0AA
5 July 2023
Dear Mr Sunak, Sir Keir and Sir Ed,
75 years after its creation, the National Health Service is in critical condition. Pressures on services are extreme and public satisfaction is at its lowest since it first began to be tracked 40 years ago. Despite this, public support for the NHS as an institution is rock solid – it still tops surveys about what makes people most proud to be British, and the public are unwavering in their support for its founding principles: free at the point of use, comprehensive and available to all.
As leaders of three leading independent health and care research institutes, we urge you to make the next election a decisive break point by ending years of short-termism in NHS policy-making. Recovering NHS services and reducing waiting times for treatment should be a key priority for any government. However, our work shows that promising unachievable, unrealistically fast improvements without a long-term plan to address the underlying causes of the current crisis is a strategy doomed to failure. The path back to a stronger health service is through long-term policies that support innovation, boost productivity and provide the resources, capacity and technology it needs over multiple years.
The NHS has endured a decade of under-investment compared to the historic average, and capital spending has been well below comparable countries. As a result, the health service has insufficient resources to do its job: fewer hospital beds than almost all similar countries, outdated equipment, dilapidated buildings and failing IT. Despite long-term objectives to reduce reliance on acute hospitals and move care closer to people’s homes, spending continues to flow in the opposite direction. Long-term thinking is essential to meet the challenges ahead – from responding to changing health needs to harnessing AI and new technology.
Last week’s publication of the NHS long term workforce plan signals a welcome cross-party consensus on the need for a long-term approach to health service staffing. The plan now needs a sustained cross-party commitment to updating forecasts and providing the resources it needs to succeed. However, ambitious steps to increase the number of staff through training, apprenticeships and international recruitment risk being frittered away if trainees continue to drop out and poor morale and sickness continue to drive staff to leave the service and retire early. A failure to act to retain existing staff would be fatal to the NHS and the health of the nation – again, this needs sustained action over the long-term to make the NHS a better place to work.
Serious reform of adult social care has been shamefully neglected by successive governments. Changing this is critical for the people, families and carers who rely on social care services and would also make a major contribution to reducing pressures on the NHS. A long funding squeeze has led to chronic staff shortages, high levels of unmet need and providers struggling to deliver high quality care. To overcome these challenges, new funding should be carefully deployed as part of a reform package that improves access to high quality care, prioritises better pay and conditions for staff, and gives people far greater protection against social care costs. The next government must succeed where its predecessors have failed by forging a long-term consensus on social care reform.
Long-term political action is also needed to address the fraying health of the UK population. The NHS was not set up to go it alone. Protecting and improving people’s health depends on a wider system of services and support that includes local government and social security. Yet people are falling between the cracks of public services and the NHS is often left to pick up the pieces.
Life expectancy has stalled and compares poorly with other countries. A recent study showed that the UK had the second lowest life expectancy among 19 countries analysed, with only the United States faring worse. Inequalities in health are deep and growing – people in the most deprived areas of England can expect to spend almost two decades less living in good health than those in the wealthiest areas. The challenging economic climate and the NHS crisis are interlinked – a healthy economy needs a healthy population, yet ONS figures show that the number of people absent from the workforce due to long-term sickness has continued to climb since the pandemic.
Our health should be treated as an asset to be invested in. The next Prime Minister should commit to a multi-year, cross-government strategy over the course of the next parliament to improve the underlying social and economic conditions that shape the health of the nation – like people’s income, education, jobs, housing and food.
For the public, the NHS remains the jewel in the country’s crown, even if it is losing its shine. The next government will face a choice between providing the investment and reform needed to preserve the NHS for future generations or continuing with short-termism and managed decline that gradually erodes the guarantee of safety in place of fear it was designed to create. Persisting with the current addiction to short-termism and eye-catching initiatives will risk the health service being unable to adapt to the huge challenges ahead and reach its centenary. It is time to move away from quick fixes and over-promising what the NHS can deliver and give it the tools it needs to succeed.
Yours sincerely

Richard Murray, Nigel Edwards and Dr Jennifer Dixon

Chief Executives of The King's Fund, the Nuffield Trust and The Health Foundation
CommentsRelated content
Joint letter to the Prime Minister on NHS funding
Announcement
06/06/2018
Joint letter on the health and social care workforce
News and opinion
14/04/2021
NHS in England grappling with difficult new normal as staff sickness soars post-pandemic
Press release
29/06/2023Topics
Health structures, legislation and reform Buildings and estates Economy Elective care Integrated care Nhs staff strikes Public perceptions Targets and waiting times

RafaistheKingofClay · 05/07/2023 08:58

Good post notonthestairs.

The idea of Rishi having the gall to turn up to NHS 75th celebrations today is giving me the rage. At best he doesn’t give a fuck. At worst he’d prefer it didn’t exist and he was making money out of it.

Give it a proper birthday present and put some money into it Rishi. Beyond just those hospitals that might fall down on people.

pointythings · 05/07/2023 11:04

We've now got a thread on AIBU about not celebrating 75 years of the NHS . So many people refusing to accept culpability of our government. These threads seem to pop up daily now, it makes me feel highly suspicious.

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 11:08

Another thread where the OP posts and runs

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 11:12

I get annoyed that people think switching to a French/German/the country their aunts neighbours friend moved to system will automatically be cheaper for the Government.

We've underinvested in comparison with most of those countries and there has been an impact on the nations health.

There are undoubtedly trade offs. I'd like for their to be a committee set up to explore our options. But I don't want anyone on that Committee that is anyway connected to private healthcare so I'm not sure who would be on it (no current politicians either).

pointythings · 05/07/2023 11:18

We couldn't have a French/German/Dutch style system without it costing a great deal more. People wouldn't pay for the NHS as it is now, with its staff shortages and infrastructure issues, and rightly so. I am not opposed to reform, but we need to be realistic about what it would cost.

Piggywaspushed · 05/07/2023 11:19

That letter is amazing!

The bit about life expectancy was good: I was shouting at the radio only this morning when they were blaming NHS issues on 'people living longer'. well , it could appear a Tory strategy is to address that issue by killing us all off earlier. Or at least the poor people.

I was also disproportionately tickled by Dear Mr Sunak, Sir Keir and Sir Ed Grin

I saw the fat thing.

a)Keir is fat??
b) If he were, would it be a problem
c) Johnson is obese all that cake

Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 11:24

pointythings · 05/07/2023 11:18

We couldn't have a French/German/Dutch style system without it costing a great deal more. People wouldn't pay for the NHS as it is now, with its staff shortages and infrastructure issues, and rightly so. I am not opposed to reform, but we need to be realistic about what it would cost.

Yes! Absolutely this!
They've spent more over a longer period of time, specifically since 2010.
Funnily enough they get improved healthcare.

Nobody reads the bloody GDP spending I post. They've invested. We've underfunded.

I swear people assume switching to a French model will mean less government spending.

Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 11:26

Posted this on the NHS thread but I'm slapping it here too.

"France, Austria, Australia, Germany - all have far superior healthcare,"

"In 2022 the UK spent $5493 per capita, the OECD $5009 - this includes some lower income members. France $6517, Denmark $6279, Germany $8010 NZ 6061 Spain $4461 Australia $6596 Finland $5676 Belgium $6600"

twitter.com/nedwards_1/status/1676217117803266050?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

Nigel Edwards is CEO of the Nuffield Trust.

•	Average day-to-day health spending in the UK between 2010 and 2019 was £3,005 per person – 18% below the EU14 average of £3,655.
•	If UK spending per person had matched the EU14 average, then the UK would have spent an average of £227bn a year on health between 2010 and 2019 – £40bn higher than actual average annual spending during this period (£187bn).
•	Matching spending per head to France or Germany would have led to an additional £40bn and £73bn (21% to 39% increase respectively) of total health spending each year in the UK.
•	Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-does-uk-health-spending-compare-across-europe-over-the-past-decade

Blossomtoes · 05/07/2023 11:28

You’re wasting your time @Notonthestairs. Anything that doesn’t reinforce their prejudices just gets ignored. They love anecdote and hate fact.

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 11:38

I see that Sunak is now saying their recent NHS plan is actually a plan from the NHS itself Hmm

OP posts:
Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 11:40

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 11:38

I see that Sunak is now saying their recent NHS plan is actually a plan from the NHS itself Hmm

I think the NHS might have included the funding.

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 11:43

and staff retention

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Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 11:44

Yes!

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 11:48

Tories celebrating NHS75 feels very much like the clap for carers.

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Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 12:23

Tory deputy PM Oliver Dowden pays tribute to @MhairiBlack who said this week she will step down as an MP before next election, noting they got elected in the same year:

Black relies: “We joined at the same time and I’m pretty sure we will be leaving at the same time.”

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1676551348567810048?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg
Grin

Notonthestairs · 05/07/2023 12:25

Here we go again.

Tories erase Boris in their Uxbridge by-election leaflet...and also fail to mention that they're even Conservatives.

THAT is how toxic this party and government has become.

And yet they still take from us.
#NHS

twitter.com/carolvorders/status/1676514595605807107?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

L1ttledrummergirl · 05/07/2023 13:51

The NHS funding doesn't take into account how much of the NHS budget was stolen and given to the conservative MPs friends and families misspent on covid.

Zonder · 05/07/2023 13:54

Gotta love Mhairi Black. Sorry to hear she is stepping down.

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 14:45

They seem to hate her on the Scotsnet thread

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RafaistheKingofClay · 05/07/2023 14:49

I hid the NHS thread.

Not sure who can still see Twitter on not, but may I present perpetual fuckmuppet Andrew Lilico attempting to argue that surgeons are not doctors
https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1676526440873902081

I mean, they might once have been barbers but these days the training route is a little different.

https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1676526440873902081

RafaistheKingofClay · 05/07/2023 15:18

Dear God what is wrong with these people. This will presumably be specific and limited force against refugee children.

Thread 27 - Sunak : the Ship is Sinking, Hold Your Nerve!
jgw1 · 05/07/2023 15:41

RafaistheKingofClay · 05/07/2023 15:18

Dear God what is wrong with these people. This will presumably be specific and limited force against refugee children.

Picking on the vulnerable makes them feel good I suppose.

He is so weak he was hardly likely to try and bully anyone who wasn't utterly defenceless.

Piggywaspushed · 05/07/2023 16:07

DuncinToffee · 05/07/2023 14:45

They seem to hate her on the Scotsnet thread

I'm not going to say why thta is and what the Scotsnet board is basically a sub branch of.

I'm just going to quote to and think it inside my head.

Swipe left for the next trending thread