MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

I saw @TokyoStories 's post before it was deleted and found it funny. Her / his post about Norse code (in a previous thread) was also funny.

income tax payments are concentrated amongst those with the largest incomes. The 10% of income taxpayers with the largest incomes contribute over 60% of income tax receipts. The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) – an economic think tank – has analysed how much households pay in tax.

One of the reasons the UK media don't broadcast everything they know the moment they know it is because the deaths of some UK troops were released during the Iraq war (I think, but it might have been early in the Afghan conflict) before their families had been informed. This caused distress not only to the families of those killed but to a whole load of military families who's loved ones were actually safe well. As a military wife I am pleased that should the worst ever happen to my husband my DC and I won't find out via a news update. The publics desire to know doesn't trump the rights of families.

This is an interesting video - but it would put you off applying for the submarine service.

Discussing the sinking of the USS Thresher and how an implosion would affect a submarine

I'm amazed by the entitlement to information people feel now.

The awful Nottingham incident had people bellowing about how appalling the lack of information was, what kind of 'incident', what do they mean 'incident' etc.

Ditto Nicola bulley.

People seem to think they are entitled to know as much and as quickly as the professionals directly involved.

Ridiculous.

The Nottingham situation was complex with multiple scenes and took time before they knew what kind of incident it was.

The submersible required massive amounts of information to be sifted to work out then what had happened, which then needed to be confirmed before being publicised. Family first, obviously.

Multiple systems, redundancy- all designed to look at situations and what to do if they failed.

There are times you can be over cautious - but if you are going deep into the ocean, you need to think about what could happen and how to ensure that you keep yourself and people with you as safe as you deem necessary.

Have I got this right?
First test run there was an electrical fault at 1,700 Metres. So they had to abandon.

First attempt they got lost.

Second attempt was successful but on the test run they were delayed 2 1/2 hours due to a fault.

They reach Titanic for the first time but then the lights stop working. They drift away and have 30minutes to start the ascend before it goes dark.

The Bsllest tanks not working. 2 hours later they decide to release the tanks and use the propellers but that takes too long and means they will surface at 1am. They initiate the emergency mechanism and they reach the surface just after 8pm. Titan isn't heavy enough for it to get into the platform without the tanks. 10.30pm divers are sent in to put weights on it. A tank wasn't given enough air so it falls into its side. At 2am they tie floating bags to the side. They get out at 4am and then do the actual attempt with paying customers WTF??

I think social media is a blessing and a curse (mainly the latter)- its hard for the authorities to keep anything 'under wraps' as it were and whilst posting on local groups and pages for information (which can be very useful) it then gets shared and spirals; same with twitter where people will post a video and lead to the police being strong armed into saying something.

It does seem more intense since lockdown, I don't know if its an exasperation in distrust in the police etc or just people are more chronically online but I agree it's ridiculous.

I generally find true crime documentaries a but ghoulish so try and only watch them if the family have been a part in them and had oversight, like the one on Libby Squire. At the time she was missing I remember lots of online chatter about how the police were crap and hadn't been doing anything- when the doc clearly showed they actually had a very good idea of what happened but had to bide their time in order to have enough to make an initial arrest. Same with NB etc of course, they knew more about the circumstances and were pushed to release personal info to stop people hounding her family and contacting them saying awful things.

@SingaporeSlinky

I saw Cameron's interview on CNN and also the interview with him and Bob Ballard. Cameron certainly pulled no punches regarding his feelings about Stockton Rush and the potential avoidability of this terrible occurrence. Ballard was a bit more 'softly softly' but Cameron made no bones about his feelings.

They were both extremely informative and put things in terms 'for the lay(wo)man' regarding construction materials, testing, and the certification available for deep water submersibles.

Cameron also stressed that, yes, he has himself designed, built, and has dived in his own experimental submersible but made a point that his is a one man craft and that he would never take anyone down in something still considered 'experimental'.

As far as continuing commercial ventures (vs vetted scientific ones) I think at the very least there needs to be some sort of mandatory regulation, certification and permitting rules for both the craft and the business. Maybe there are, I don't know. But if there are, they're apparently inadequate. I think at such depths (vs the Arizona or scuba-diveable wrecks/ruins) any expeditions need to be certified by a recognized oceanographic body, such as Woods Hole or a maritime commission. And not just a situation where someone 'trains' a tourist to do one particular scientific 'thing' and then calls them a 'crew member' as if that makes it a 'scientific expedition'. They are tourists, plain and simple.

Oh gosh ok. I suppose I was trying to work out why the other parts were in tact

I don't think the pressure at the depths they would reach would be enough to cause an implosion - but if there was damage then water would rapidly enter under great pressure and would quickly fill the sub if it couldn't be kept contained, sinking it and drowning all on board.

There will have been occasions when crew will have been locked into (say) engine rooms and left to drown because evacuating them would have taken too long and the entire craft would have been lost.

But I think you’re really not appreciating that ‘something else corroborative’ doesn’t usually mean other sounds. Try listening to some of the tapes and you’ll appreciate how very noisy it is underwater.

’Corroboration’ means physical evidence or visual evidence (and btw, they rescued the crew from Pisces III).

I know what corroboration means. That whole thread was about how noisy it was underwater and I did listen to the tapes.

One of the reasons the UK media don't broadcast everythingthey know the moment they know it is because the deaths of some UK troops were released during the Iraq war (I think, but it might have been early in the Afghan conflict) before their families had been informed.

Similar happened in the Falklands conflict. At the time of the Sir Galahad incident, before the MoD had announced or confirmed anything, tv reporters in London were saying they had heard the Welsh Guards were involved.

And I remember reading that some senior military men on the spot were incandescent with fury at the way the media was speculating about what the Task Force might do next. Careless talk costs lives.

It's a well known principle of journalism that the fact of a death should never be first disclosed to the family through the media.

It was the Norse code that I laughed at.

I can recommend one particular submarine book (autobiography) that talks about submariners' experiences in WW2. I am always astonished how people kept on going back down, but of course it was war time and they had to.

Iron Coffins (by German submariner Herbert A.Werner) is an excellent and gripping book. Depth charges didn't necessarily cause sub implosion, not unless the sub was too close. There are plenty of descriptions in the book mentioned.

Hamish Harding is a philanthropist who has given millions away to charity as well as his time and support for many important causes, and Shahzada Dawood did loads of work with the Princes Trust, so they were doing things with both their time and money for the greater good.

There you go with those pesky, inconvenient facts.

For those you think they're rich idiots, perhaps read a bit about them -

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02100-y

observer.com/2023/06/who-is-hamish-harding-the-billionaire-philanthropist-aboard-the-missing-submarine/

(Sorry if this has been mentioned but could not read all Titan sub pages on this forum) The tragic story unfolding is so awful to read. It sounds an absolute nightmare.
It is so shocking to read from the Metro.uk:
"How is Titan controlled? Titan is driven by a reinforced Logitech game controller and touch screens. The Logitech F710 wireless gamepad was first released in 2011 and costs around £42 on Amazon.
Crew members communicate with the mothership via text message and there is no GPS system.
Mr Rush said: ‘We’ve taken a completely new approach to the sub design and it’s all run with this game controller and these touch screens. "
How on earth this this vehicle get through safety standards? why did those poor rich fools get so duped as to set foot on this ghastly vehicle?

The Titan sub was controlled and driven by a reinforced Logitech game controller and touch screens.
This is so alarming!

You're about 5 threads behind.

I don't think anyone would be thinking these men were idiots. The fact is that they did an idiotic thing - getting into that sub. We are human, no matter what our status is.
These men were truly good men, and so sad to hear they could not be rescued in time.