MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

I'd love to know what process you go through, as a civilian, before embarking on this sort of trip.
I wonder if you arrive at 'base' a week before the trip for familiarisation with the equipment. Are you hanging around for days/weeks/months waiting for the right weather window? Or do you just turn up the night before like its a package holiday?
Do you go through health screening and testing before you put down your deposit so that the provider can assess your susceptibility to claustrophobia, and other issues they'd like to avoid such as your risk of having a heart attack? Or do they just take your word for it that you'll be fine?
Does anyone have any insight into this?

The itenary and how to book is on their website still.

it's hideous that the families have spent 4 days imagining their loved ones trapped in a can at the bottom of the Atlantic

I suspect the families were told the painful likelihood that they were already dead, but that they would continue to search until they were absolutely sure that there was no chance of survival. They will have had hope, but been aware that it was a faint one.

I don't think they were 'happy' to release the banging information, I think it leaked and they then had to say, 'Yes we heard a noise but we don't know what it is'.

I thought that too, @sashh - I saw a commentator on (I think) GBnews who said that there had in fact, only been two lots of banging sounds, half an hour apart - not the hours of rhythmic hammering that was implied, and that someone had stuck this information on Twitter or something - I couldn't find the clip again, so didn't bother mentioning it on here.

I think the Coast Guard have done a very good job of co-ordinating a complex mission.

I agree - they did an amazing job, not only in a very difficult situation, but under the scrutiny of the world, and being bombarded by the press at every turn. Rather them than me, having to fend off intrusive questions and unfair criticism

Agree with all this

Are you sure that's the case? OceanGate's website was down last night and still is when I just checked (after reading your post).

Yep - unless she was so distressed that it just came tumbling out, it was spiteful. It may or may not have been true, but it was cruel to her SIL and niece to say something like that.

Sorry this was in reply to @Marteenie but my laptop did something weird 🙄

Perhaps. Or perhaps she wanted to get one last dig in at her estranged brother.

I think it's more nuanced than some people are making out.

I think the billionaire thing is irrelevant, although obviously it allows you to do things that others can't contemplate.

I don't think it should've been so easy for these people to get into this situation. OceanGate shouldn't be able to take money from customers to fund their extremely risky and ill-advised exploits and just sign over all responsibility with a waiver. Telling customers that a vessel is unclassified or experimental doesn't really help unless they know the full implications of what that means - no doubt if they asked, they would've been given the "regulations hinder innovation" spiel. If OG attached a copy of the letter outlying all the safety concerns around their vessel, would the same passengers have paid and boarded?

My issue is not with extreme depth tourism. My issue is not with people having the funds to pay for such things. My issue is that nothing was in place to stop this from happening in the first place. It feels very much like OceanGate's vanity project and their desperate desire to be the first, higher capacity tourist vessel, has led to this. If it was truly about depth exploration, research, and sharing the wonders of the deep, surely you'd want to give your guests the best experience possible and not needlessly risk killing them. If it isn't criminal then it bloody well needs to be.

If very small, round vessels that hold max 3 people, are the only safe(ish) way to descend so deep, then you use those and you charge more. Tough bollocks if most people can't afford it and tough bollocks if it's not a viable tourist venture. Not everything needs to be seen by everyone. Some parts of the planet are off limits for a reason.

The only people getting in those vessels should've been OG staff, fully aware of their own shortcomings. It's infuriating that they allowed others to get in with them, for the sake of lining their pockets.

These seem like things that should happen but given their penchant for corner cutting who knows?

I read elsewhere - reddit I think, that allegedly the Dawoods signed up quite late due to others dropping out and were offered a deal of 300k for two seats rather than the usual 250k pp.

Obviously this is just hearsay and not confirmed fact.

I suspect numerous troubling practices will come to light once a full investigation is complete.

I can't understand why we've been told the search area was massive when it was exactly where it was last known to have been.

I'm guessing, but probably for three reasons

a) the search area was massive, technically speaking, and currents could have carried debris just about anywhere

b) if they'd revealed that they were concentrating the search on a particular limited area, the press would have wanted to know what (and the information couldn't be released until it was verified)

c) there would have been even more of the "They're dead - why are we wasting all this money on a few greedy self-indulgent men we can't help anyway?" etc, when until they actually had the proof of the implosion there was always a chance, however faint, that they may still be alive and trapped.

Oh thanks! I wouldn't have thought that!

The pressure hull only will have imploded into it's (internal) airspace.......

Anything hanging on/attached externally would end up scattered around the debris field.

I did google and it looks like this is the only source of the 17 bolts, closed only 18 claim - an unverifiable tweet

https://twitter.com/chiller/status/1671779333784961024

The footage it includes about the bolts being closed by hand looks to me also to be unverified - as in it's not even clear if it is the Oceangate Titan sub.

Whilst looking I found this which I found mildly amusing - but it's a bit twisted/black humour - so don't look at it if you are in the shock/grief/anger camp here.https://twitter.com/bjvista/status/1671612999566610437/photo/1

Very good post.

Oh sorry didn't realise it had been taken down, I'm surprised it wasn't earlier tbh! It's available in archive not sure I can share the link but if you Google it should come up.

As far as I understand it, the landing frame was made of metal and was solid, so wouldn't be obliterated in the same way. I'm not sure what rear cover was made of, however as it was external to the pressure container, and therefore contained no inside pressure, I assume it would've popped off during the implosion. Happy to be corrected by someone with more knowledge of physics.

Anyone else found the video of the aunt disingenuous? news.sky.com/story/expert-explains-why-the-titan-submersible-may-have-suffered-catastrophic-implosion-12908160

I knew that. That's where I heard about the story, this year's Chelsea Flower Show winning garden. Doesn't change the fact that they went to the polar bear's habitat on a very expensive holiday to gawk at starving polar bears.

And Marteenie you may wish to doff your cap to these billionaire 'philantrophists' but I very doubt they would care two straws about you or funding scholarships for people like you. If he was a genuine philantrophists he wouldn't still be a billionaire.

People can do both things, do you spend all of your money on helping people or do you do some things you also enjoy? Well, I spend my money on living, looking after family and some charity, you know, normal stuff, unlike insane thrill rides that get people killed.

And exploration is one thing, going on a dangerous jaunt like the Titanic one for no other benefit but look in fascination at other people's gravesite is another. Ditto Elon Musk's Mars mission or Everest tourists causing harm to the environment and local people.

Wow. Totally agree @monte8. I hadn't seen that clip before (thanks for the link!) She seems very off-kilter to me.

Very interesting - and horrible to think how shoddily constructed the Titan seems to have been. Sheer hubris has killed those men.

Thank you for the link

I don't think I'd ever consider the former anything but a tragedy.

I don't really understand the criticism of people who want to go into space or explore the ocean. Surely most discoveries that have changed our way of living were accidental findings from people with curious minds, often with no related intention at all?

That too.

It was unnecessary

The whole risk/benefit analysis is interesting. We risk assess situations continuously don't we? I'm going to the shops today. I will drive. I could die in a car accident. I decide I will mitigate against this by wearing a seatbelt, wearing my glasses and not exceed speed limits. I make a decision that the chance I will die is so vanishingly small, I will do it.

Some people are risk averse and others are much more happy to take risks. I am risk averse. I would never scuba dive, climb a mountain or bungee jump. Maybe very successful people are naturally more likely to be risk takers? Perhaps that mindset had contributed to their succeses?

So if everything implodes that deep how has the wreckage and all the debris survived the water pressure?