MISSING TITAN SUB - THREAD 5

[tortoishelll]

Thread 5 - a continuation.

My heart aches for those poor men and their families. 💔😔

I think the thing that has surprised me most in all of this is that PH Nargeolet, a very experienced submersible pilot at the top of his field, did so many dives with OceanGate despite all the apparent safety concerns.

Oh yes interesting point

What are you on about with "risking aircrew"?

If for example the P-3 crews hadn't been flying, dropping sonobouys in support of the search they would quite possibly been off flying, dropping sonobouys for training....same job, same (lowish) risk level.

As for SOSUS (or whatever has succeeded it) we quite rightly don't know what level of resolution it has so - would you be willing to stop the search on the basis of one piece of data?

I agree with all of this.

Also, the number of posts that say ‘we don’t belong in the ocean’. We don’t belong in the sky either, but I bet that doesn’t stop those posters booking their flights for holidays abroad.

The legal community are interested in how things will work now - esp the marine law nerds (and they are nerds!).

Interesting times to come (if you're interested in that kind of thing).

So sad for the families - there's a proverb (Japanese?) "may you live a boring life" and I wonder about Suleman. What a shame he didn't get to live a 'boring' life of university, travelling, girl/boyfriends, work and family.

I hope his mother had the inside track about the implosion and wasn't wondering for 3/4 days if her child was stuck at the bottom of the ocean in a tin-can tomb.

It seems the father-son duo were fairly last minute add ons as the company were trying to find paying passengers and had offered those spots to another duo in early May who ultimately declined. Eventually those two spots went to this father son duo. They had also offered a last minute deal of $300K for two people to the other duo so likely similar for this father-son.

There are many factors as to why a 19 year old could be pressured or influenced or taken advantage of due to a power differential with an older adult, especially when that adult is a parent and when there could be cultural factors as play regarding parent-adult child dynamics. Displeasing your father, saying no to your father, dishonouring your father's wishes etc can all lead to negative consequences for an adult child who is seen as being disrespectful by the culture.

This is an interesting thread, apologies if it was posted before:

twitter.com/LadyDoctorSays/status/1671700989429297152?s=20

What are you on about with "risking aircrew"?

If for example the P-3 crews hadn't been flying, dropping sonobouys in support of the search they would quite possibly been off flying, dropping sonobouys for training....same job, same (lowish) risk level.

I get your point but even if training they probably wouldn’t have been far out over the North Atlantic. Not just air crew of course, personnel on board ships using heavy machinery etc. It’s not exactly uncommon for people to die during search and rescue.

Even old tech could identify exact subs not just their class. I have no doubt that they 100% knew what the noise was but didn’t want the world to know their classified capabilities. Just like MH370 where the military didn’t provide radar data at first so as not to reveal their capabilities. It’s possible of course that a government somewhere does have more tracking info on MH370 but it’s so top secret they could never reveal it.

“ I have no doubt that they 100% knew what the noise was but didn’t want the world to know their classified capabilities.”

If they really didn’t want the world to know, we wouldn’t know even now. The USCG would simply have said that the ROV searched at the point below where contact was lost and nothing further would have come out.

"The legal community are interested in how things will work now - esp the marine law nerds (and they are nerds!).

Interesting times to come (if you're interested in that kind of thing)."

It is interesting. I've been reading the marine law threads on Reddit mainly. They are nerds and I'm impressed by their knowledge.

I can't remember exactly...but I'm sure I heard it somewhere...no idea if it's true or not. Have a google though

I don’t buy that line either. Humans push boundaries, it’s not unusual

Apart from being far too claustrophobic I get the attraction plus find the deep sea knowledge fascinating

What works, and what doesn’t and why

I don't think speculation about the relationship between mum, dad and son is helpful. The aunt was very wrong to do so, and so are we to hash it out with no personal knowledge.

I can imagine all sorts of alternative- and equally likely- scenarios about the family's dynamics but it would be both wrong and pointless.

I don't know what happened with that reply but to repeat that site is not a heck of a long way off shore, I've flown over the area commercially dozens of times at the start or end of Atlantic flights..get get out to 40 or 30 west and then you are a long way out but that is not the case here.

For the Anti submarine guys/search and rescue people in P-3s that area is almost in their backyard... you are greatly exaggerating the risks to the aviation side of the operation.

I agree.

all the “he was just 19!!” / “he didn’t want to go!!” stuff is also a way of focusing the story on being more sad and keeping it in discussion when in reality, we have no idea if he wanted to go or not

We don't know for certain he was terrified. His Aunt said that but for all we know she was estranged from her brother. The statement from the family could possible be referring to her as it was cryptic. Who knows.

I don't think speculation about the relationship between mum, dad and son is helpful. The aunt was very wrong to do so, and so are we to hash it out with no personal knowledge.

Agreed. Bizarre really. We have no personal knowledge.

Though this is a contrast to the more factual discussion threads I've been reading elsewhere.

THIS AND THIS AND THIS AMEN

While it is sad for people to lose their lives, especially young people, accidents like this don't feel like a tragedy to me. Rather like an incredibly stupid stunt by overentitled people playing God.

Billionaires doing risky deep sea missions for fun. Elon Musk in space. Everest tourists. Eton student killed by a polar bear in its own habitat. And so on.

How about fewer extreme vanity projects and investing the money and effort into helping suffering people? Just a thought. Or if a billionaire's life is boring go join the relief effort in a war zone. Go visit a refugee camp to help. Volunteer in a food bank. Or summat.

Is the titanic a unesco site or
Something? Does that mean you need their permission to do a dive? Did ocean gate get that permission? Would it be for unesco to lead any legal action or investigation?

People can do both things, do you spend all of your money on helping people or do you do some things you also enjoy?

Admittedly I don't know much about the others, but Hamish Harding and the Explorers Club have done lots of philanthropic things so you are just being ignorant and judging based on the fact they dare to be rich (which is a sin to many people for some reason). Perhaps before you make posts like this it would be worth doing a bit of research?

I am a working class black woman who has benefited from scholarships to allow me to afford to study and exploration has played a big part in a lot of developments that we all benefit from. For sure there are a lot of issues with this particular one and i hope changes are made, but sick of the judgement and assumptions made by the ignorant.

Then stop fucking posting shit that you don't know (this goes for many, many comments on these past 5 threads, which I've read in their entirety but not posted on yet)

A green pig swam past the sub, gave them the thumbs up, then activated the self destruction button on the side of the window.

Now, someone can go post that they heard/read that a green pig swam past the sub, gave them the thumbs up, then activated the self destruction button on the side of the window.

Maybe it's true. Maybe it's not.

The lack of critical thinking when it comes to posting rumours and uneducated bullshit from inauthentic sources has been astounding on these threads.

People say we need to keep our kids safe from misinformation online - I think some of you need to start learning that yourselves, or your kids are fucked.

Scholarships are often funded by people like HH I should elaborate, and they make science and other STEM subjects accessible to people who might otherwise not afford to enter the field.

1. Yes, it’s a UNESCO World Heritage site, but that in itself doesn’t have legal “teeth”.
2. No permission is required to dive around the wreck. Licences are required under an international treaty to enter the hull remnants or remove artefacts, but this was not part of OceanGate’s plan.
3. No, UNESCO can’t prosecute or bring a civil claim. As the wreck is in international waters there are difficult jurisdictional questions over any criminal proceedings and the conduct of a forensic investigation into the crash, which are currently the subject of much discussion. Civil claims will depend upon “proper forum” considerations including, but not limited to, any choice of law/choice of forum clauses in the relevant contractual agreements and the location of contracting parties and relevant third parties including any insurers. The company is registered in Washington state but the contract may well have been signed in Canada, which has a complex interaction of federal and provincial laws especially relating to marine claims.