Missing Titan Sub! Thread 4

[Mommasgotabrandnewbag]

As thread 3 is filling up here is a new one. For the benefit of those just joining the conversation;

Thread 1
Thread 2
Thread 3

Yes we know they're billionaires
We can discuss things that are horrifying and ghoulish, thanks for your opinion.
Migrant boats are sad too

As you were 😁

Excuse my ignorance, why doesn't this thing just end up floating back up to surface??'

The weight of the ocean. It's like asking why the Titanic hasn't floated back up...

I think that's the very question no one knows.

Is it stuck on something? Does it still have the ballasts attached? Is it partially flooded? Has it imploded?

We don't know.

Possibility's:

• it could have imploded
• it could be trapped in a fishing net or even on part of the titantic wreckage
• the surfacing systems could have failed
• it might have surfaced but we can't find where it is

OceanGate makes a loss on these launches and trips, they spend over $1m just on fuel each time. Not sure condemning the CEO for 'swindling' is very helpful right now, and may in fact be incorrect. It's also clear that people have unrealistic images of what this type of technology looks like: a lot of super expensive military tech uses these type of controllers. Every development is an opportunity cost: spend $80k on a fancy irreplaceable controller and don't carry a spare, or spend $80k on a hull thickness upgrade and have easily replaceable controllers that you carry spares of onboard? A full investigation will take place into the safety of this, but ultimately this is what the edge of innovation looks like - you just only hear about the failures.

I stand corrected - didn't check that part before I posted - but the general point, i.e. that things function very differently than they do on the surface at atmospheric pressure, holds.

They could never be found or nit for years

Will the sub even last for years? Would it not degrade and eventually implode?

It would need to jettison weight to float. When they find it they can find out what likely happened

'OceanGate makes a loss on these launches and trips, they spend over $1m just on fuel each time. '

oh so it's altruistic then. Makes sense...

If the hull is intact, then when they find it they’ll be able to power up their phones and see what messages were recorded before they died.

DH explained to me about the making noise every 30mins for 3 mins on the half hour was a recognised rescue technique. Although I would be making noise rhymically in between times too.

Many people have been captured by this and hoping for a rescue and a miracle.

Well no, because Titan has 7 separate systems on board designed to make it float back up to the surface.

Obviously it is becoming apparent there are major flaws in safety/planning/design but it was designed to float back up - the ropes holding the ballasts for example disintegrate after 17 hours in sea water, so if it hasn’t imploded or became stuck it should have surfaced.

I can’t believe how disproportionate the reaction has been to this.

I mean we’re talking here about five people who chose to be bolted into a sardine can and plunged into the ocean all so they could visit the titanic, which by all accounts at least one of them had done, on numerous occasions.

If these had been five teenagers who had built a sub in their garage and gone down into Poole harbour would there be this level of publicity?

I
Yes it’s sad that they’ve died, although it’s unlikely that they will have known about it, but did it really need wall to wall news coverage?

I can only guess that most of this is pure fascination rather than anything else. Fascination that anyone would choose to do this, fascination that people would actively crawl into this capsule and be bolted in from the outside, and would pay upwards of 200 grand to do it.

Why would you if the agreed method is universally recognised?

You know he is one of the crew, right? He’s one of the missing.

If these had been five teenagers who had built a sub in their garage and gone down into Poole harbour would there be this level of publicity?

Yes, I think there would if the conditions were comparable. If no-one knew where they were, if it was a race against time to rescue them before their support systems ran out.

However from that perspective the five teenagers in Poole Harbour is a false comparison, because the conditions almost certainly wouldn't be the same.

'Excuse my ignorance, why doesn't this thing just end up floating back up to surface??'

The weight of the ocean. It's like asking why the Titanic hasn't floated back up...
Well no, because Titan has 7 separate systems on board designed to make it float back up to the surface.'

Of course, silly me. everyone's knows it's using cutting edge technology.

as I said, weight. With no way of jettisoning weight - despite all those systems - it can't just float up.

I think because it is so macabre. The idea of people facing their own fate without the ability to do much about it. How many people have a fear of being buried alive? Similar premise. It captures the imagination in an excruciating way. I think that’s why.

I am also a bit uncomfortable about the countdown element but it's understandable people are marking time/oxygen.

Does anyone know if it's possible that is has surfaced and that somehow they've managed to make an air vent? I know the hatch can't be opened from the inside and expect that's with all that pressure it's subject to you wouldn't stand a chance of making a hole, but is there survival chance any better if it has surfaced?

I'm convinced people only care about this because they don't care about billion/millionaires. We don't focus our attention on the media to the children drowning in dinghies trying to reach safety because it hurts.

Billionaires, famous people, etc are disposable.

'If these had been five teenagers who had built a sub in their garage and gone down into Poole harbour would there be this level of publicity?'

yes! And probably less judgement.

500 immigrants on a boat tho... not sure anyone would really care beyond the initial headline. In fact - that's just happened, and I don't know a thing other than that initial headline... I certainly don't know any of their hobbies, who their great grandparents were, or anything else

Its approximately 6400 lbs per square inch at their depth (all figures close approximates) 2.5 miles is 13200 feet, 1 atmosphere per 30 feet is approximately 440 atmospheres which at 14.6 lbs per atmosphere is the approximately 6400 lbs per square inch.

How so? What do you think they should have used? Would brand new poles have been better?

No, they haven't been seen floating anywhere, they've been watching for days for signs like that. They'll be stuck under the titanic or something, no way to get out. If they had floated up they'd be saved by now,.

I’m not sure about that - I’ve read several stories recently about migrant drownings, including one story on the Guardian about what a fisherman found in his net which was truly heartbreaking. It may not be headline news in the same way, but the news is out there if you care to engage with it. I doubt many people real all of the BBC politics pages everyday but I do, because it matters.

Also because of the media have it was always going to be a big story with British people on board. Same as with any air crash, if there are British dead or missing then it absolutely gets reported in the UK, that’s standard.

But we don’t know it can’t jettison weight, a poster asked a question about why it didn’t just float back up and you were patronising in your response.

It is meant to resurface under its own steam, obviously that hasn’t happened because of either piss poor design and not doing what it was meant to, or it is stuck/has imploded.

If the PP genuinely wanted to understand something, why not just answer properly? Because no it’s not “weight” and that’s the end of it, it’s that the systems haven’t worked in the way they should and it’s for that reason that the weight is keeping them down, but the systems are there and are used in other submersibles.