Missing Titan Sub! Thread 3

[Badabingbadaboomm]

OP of the last thread has said she has to pop out so making this one as we’re almost full on the 2nd thread.

I cannot stop thinking about these poor men.

A friend commented that if the five are rescued one of them should be going straight to prison.
I hadn't really thought until then about the criminality or not of such an expedition.

Is the book good?

Yes that sounded hopeful

I do wonder what your motivations could be for saying that 5 people dying before their time in an awful way, part of a neglectful accident, isn't a tragedy. Why?

Because it's true.

I've already stated my rationale.

I'm not heartless. I hope they are rescued.

But it's not a tragedy. They signed up to a highly risky mission.

There is a chance though

It’s spooky and atmospheric as feck @Dinobore .. v v good

What law do you think they have broken, and whose jurisdiction?

Genuine question - they're on the high seas, so no national law applies. What flag is the support ship? Does that nationality, or that of anyone associated with the company, or the company itself as a legal entity, have relevant laws with extra-territorial effect?

Why does it being a risky event mean it's not a tragedy though?

I’m sure I read it wouldn’t arrive until around midnight, but I could be wrong and can’t find the source.

Why would anyone go to prison. IF they get the vessel up and find the issue the passengers still signed the waiver. This wasn't Alton Towers. There are risks. I don't think my car won't start or not get a flat tyre. But sometimes shit happens.

I agree with you but on the other hand, is this such a massive news story because they’re billionaires!? … https://www.instagram.com/p/Ctv9IxKIjqJ/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

A chance it fails or a chance it doesn't? If you have 2 winches capable at that depth, you improve your chance of success.

Makes me wonder if the reason the US refused the help is because they think the 5 are already dead? Why else would you refuse? Surely this isn't about egos and whose equipment is better when there are lives are stake? Unless those lives aren't at stake anymore.

Apologies, I'm don't want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, I just don't understand why you would refuse help when there are only a few pieces of equipment in the world that might be able to rescue the sub and one of those comes with people who have recent specialist knowledge of the area.

The Atalante is nearby, slightly southeast of the Polar Prince.

I would think to the mother of the 19 yr lad it is very much a tragedy!!

An awful, heartbreaking situation yes.

I absolutely feel for her (but I also think there is no way I'd have let my child on this venture - but I appreciate compared to the father she may have had limited sway).

But tragedy no.

To repeat its a statistically probable failure of a very high risk venture.

Tragic is for the improbable and utterly unexpected.

I really hope they are found alive- I keep thinking of the poor 19 year old. One question which keeps popping in my mind is that why do they believe that there is x hours if oxygen left? This cowboy outfit dem to hand cut corners on safety and the cocky CEO seemed almost proud to admit to it in a tv interview- what makes anyone think the oxygen story is true?

Me neither sorry! I think it must have been bbc or daily mail

I would say it IS a tragedy, but one at least partly of their own making (I don't think the two things are necessarily mutually exclusive).

Surely some sort of criminal negligence charges must be in line for the OceanGate company? The details emerging about the build of that vessel are absurd almost to the point of farce. I went on to the website to have a look at their "offerings" and the page with exhibition dates for the rest of 2023 is currently down. 🤔

Yes, especially since in one interview with someone that went last summer he said that they had more like 40 hours of oxygen and then would need to switch to scuba tanks stored under the floor of the Titan. So if they were alive they would be using the scuba tanks by now, but I strongly suspect that there is no chance of that.

Losing your child at 19 is a personal tragedy!! But I’m sure his mother would be grateful for your input on how the absolute hell she must be going through!!

We get that. Aren't all events statistical probabilities if you want to be robotic and cold.

A parent losing their child unexpectedly is a tragedy. We can have empathy with for that.

I imagine they'd be honest about it now they are I'm this situation

Yes, especially since in one interview with someone that went last summer he said that they had more like 40 hours of oxygen and then would need to switch to scuba tanks stored under the floor of the Titan. So if they were alive they would be using the scuba tanks by now, but I strongly suspect that there is no chance of that.

Presumably that's 40 hours worth of oxygen in a situation where the occupants are NOT hyperventilating?

Even if they do locate them, surely they wouldn't have time to save them now anyway. And that's assuming they or some of them are still alive.
I wish the resources put into saving the lives of 5 people who were putting their lives at risk for fun, were put into saving those who risk their lives out of desperation. It's a messed up world we are in

I think we all knew what the most likely outcome would be. Their only chance of survival was if they'd managed to surface somewhere - and could be found in time to unseal the cabin. Even if they found the sub now they'd have very little chance of recovery. The only craft capable of getting that deep are tiny like this one. There is no submarine or vessel capable of hauling them off the seabed - they only marginal chance was if a small submersible were able to push aside something preventing them from exiting the wreck or other barrier and it was still operationally fit to make it to the surface. There would be no way to disentangle it from stray fishing nets etc. But all of this would be irrelevant if the sub imploded or had some other catastrophic accident. With safety concerns and a lack of certainty about the stress testing of this vessel that is a very likely option.

See what a pompous pretend expert I've become....

From the Facebook of Hamish Harding its clear he was a rich man who loved his explorer adventures. Flying, air ballooning, getting a Guinness Book of Records award for the deepest dive to the ocean floor. He liked testing the limits and living with adventure. Its also clear that on past expeditions he took his teen son so I can only feel relief that on this expedition he went alone. Its very sad that another man did take his 19 year old son. Perhaps being rich, being used to the best in life and used to the high price tag of luxury it lured some of the passengers into imagining a greater level of safety. And that the owner/operator was going himself too. But we know they signed waivers which listed all of the risks (I think 10 or so were spelt out) in black and white.

I don't think we should be ashamed of our fascination though of course it is inevitably ghoulish. I remember a similar level of intense fascination when the Kursk submarine disaster happened in 2000. Its a mixture of our own fears, of claustrophobia, of isolation and hopelessness and awe that in fact the world is vast and nature is more powerful than any of us tiny humans skating across the surface. Explorers take many more risks than us sofa bound opinionists. And for most of us the risks would never ever be worth it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kursk_submarine_disaster

The definition of tragedy is "an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe."

I think we can surely agree this fits that definition.