Over sexualising in RSE

[Catsanfan]

Please someone tell me this isn't true: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html?utm_source=flipboard&utm_content=DailyMailUS%2Fmagazine%2FTop+Stories&fbclid=IwAR3WuJOPuV--qT9HzYzF_w29zp_45vPHslHRYrD_gNsNg5c4dEM8UQ1YMxg

Sorry for mail link. The masturbation photos make me want to hurl, my 10 yo has RSE tomorrow and I am completely freaking out!

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

You've asked a legitimate question Catsanfan and it's always revealing when some can't / won't address the issues but just start slinging slurs around - almost as if they trying to derail the discussion.

This has happened on this government's watch. Their approach to schools has been "you're the experts, here's a little guidance but you're on your own otherwise". That's why busy teachers outsource this. I've taught SRE in many schools and I've looked at some of these materials in detail. Because so many unsuitable organisations self identify as experts in teaching SRE (when they're nothing of the sort), schools don't know where to turn.
Here's another organisation that works in schools and produced an unsuitable activity for teenagers. Fortunately i suspect few teachers would have used it because they'd be hauled up under the Sex Offences Act if they did - but it's out as a resource for adults to use with teenagers 13 plus:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4584553-the-proud-trust

[Guavafish1]

When did you start? You seem so obsessed with the subject.

[RegionalFish]

Teach kids about consent, biological reproductions and how to avoid making Abbies / getting STDs.

The rest is private. How creepy and sinister if a bureaucratic organisation, such as state education involves itself in matters that are simply private.

Shoving sexual content down their throat in front of teachers and peers at school compromises the human dignity of children in my view. We have lots of conversation about sex ed at home, I know how to pitch it for my kids so they feel in control and empowered, not grossed out. They hate sex ed at school because it's so embarrassing for them. And ours isn't even teaching the dodgy stuff.

[Catsanfan]

@MrsOvertonsWindow thank you. That game looks appalling!

[Catsanfan]

@RegionalFish exactly

[Catsanfan]

@Guavafish1 what do you mean? If I'm obsessed with not wanting children to be groomed at school, so be it

[Charley50]

Whoever said anal sex should be normalised; no it shouldn't! There are young girls and women presenting with serious injuries from anal sex, probably boys too, I don't know. Lots of coercion happening. Anal sex should be something adults do (if they want to) after they have spent some years getting to know what they like and don't like. It's being pushed on teenagers because of porn. It's not a necessary part of a sex life, why's it taught to kids? Ditto, fisting, ditto, strangulation. Unless it's mid to older teens being taught that they can say no, and how harmful these things can be, it shouldn't be taught. Im someone who had almost zero sex Ed, but a healthy and fun sex life since aged 17. Adults don't belong in children's private lives like this. Gross

[ItsFunToBeAVampire]

@Catsanfan

@Guavafish1 what do you mean? If I'm obsessed with not wanting children to be groomed at school, so be it

You've asked a valid question, there will always be some apologists for this and that's how really inappropriate stuff is able to be taught in schools.
The nay-sayers come along and say its lies or the wrong paper published it, or you're homophobic/transphobic/racist for questioning, or as that poster did, insinuate that you're being inappropriate for being concerned about kids being shown pictures of masturbation.
Definitely go into school and ask to see the teaching materials at the first opportunity.

[Crustsamongus]

@User9779

Anal sex shouldn't be de-stigmatised. It causes injury in young girls. I heard a surgeon talking about it and it was pretty horrific and can't be put right.

I firmly believe that knowledge is power. Teach kids about what it involves and what it should not involve and you're equipping them with the knowledge to assert their boundaries. It's not like boys will stop suggesting having anal sex to girls if it's never discussed in school. Also, some gay men have anal sex, so I feel it would be wrong to only talk about vaginal penetrative sex.

No "young girl" should be having any type of sex btw. Language matters.

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

@Nomorenonbinary

You have been told repeatedly that it's not true. Some of the people telling you this are teachers who teach this subject.

Well, they say they are….but who knows ? They might just be other slimy journalists (sic) who are stirring things up for their own dire ends.

[Crustsamongus]

@Catsanfan

@Crustsamongus So you think it's fine for 10 year olds to be presented with pictures of people frantically wanking?! Telling them about factually is one thing, the pictures are just perverse and I bet any child presented with them would want to die of mortification

They aren't pictures of "people frantically wanking", don't be so dramatic! They're drawings of a boy/ girl masturbating. 10 could be Y5 still, so maybe a bit young, but Y7 (so 11-12) would be fine in my own opinion.

As for mortification: speaking from experience, mortifying a (pre)teen is easily done. It shouldn't be the benchmark for whether something should or should not be taught.

[Crustsamongus]

@Charley50

Whoever said anal sex should be normalised; no it shouldn't! There are young girls and women presenting with serious injuries from anal sex, probably boys too, I don't know. Lots of coercion happening. Anal sex should be something adults do (if they want to) after they have spent some years getting to know what they like and don't like. It's being pushed on teenagers because of porn. It's not a necessary part of a sex life, why's it taught to kids? Ditto, fisting, ditto, strangulation. Unless it's mid to older teens being taught that they can say no, and how harmful these things can be, it shouldn't be taught. Im someone who had almost zero sex Ed, but a healthy and fun sex life since aged 17. Adults don't belong in children's private lives like this. Gross

I said it should be destigmatised. I said this thinking of gay men. At no point did I say it should be normalised. The resource in the article merely mentions it. It is not being encouraged at all. Kids will work out that it's possible for a penis to go into the mouth or the anus as well as the vagina, even without any form of sex ed or exposure to porn. Just acknowledge it is possible and then arm the kids with the information needed to decide for themselves. No point making it into something secretive. I totally agree it should be discussed in the context of relationships and the dangers/ risks should be addressed as well. I never said it shouldn't.

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

If you're on insta look at @lalalaletmeexplain stories she is doing a very well informed thread on this at the moment.

[DizzyRascal]

FML I have heard it all. Boys won't stop asking girls to have anal sex so schools have a duty to explain what it is? So, validating it for young people then?!
Schools have no business talking to children about wanking, anal, or any other explicit sexual practice.
Reproduction, contraception, consent and relationships ( particularly red flags for abuse). Thats it.
I knew what anal sex was at 12 , knew gay men did it, but if my TEACHER had started talking about it like it was all fiiine I might have thought it was going to be expected!
Oh, and I told my kids the basics of what sex was and how babies were made really young- because they asked. 10 year olds are not asking how to wank. FFS.

[Catsanfan]

@DizzyRascal good points

[Crustsamongus]

@DizzyRascal

FML I have heard it all. Boys won't stop asking girls to have anal sex so schools have a duty to explain what it is? So, validating it for young people then?!
Schools have no business talking to children about wanking, anal, or any other explicit sexual practice.
Reproduction, contraception, consent and relationships ( particularly red flags for abuse). Thats it.
I knew what anal sex was at 12 , knew gay men did it, but if my TEACHER had started talking about it like it was all fiiine I might have thought it was going to be expected!
Oh, and I told my kids the basics of what sex was and how babies were made really young- because they asked. 10 year olds are not asking how to wank. FFS.

You're misrepresenting what I said. I said I believe knowledge is power. Power to stick up for their own boundaries and only engage in sexual activity that they want and feel comfortable with. My post was in response to another poster saying that girls are getting injured from anal and it should therefore not be mentioned in sex ed at all.

Also, there is a HUGE difference between teaching children about something and validating that thing (I thought this was obvious and went without saying, but maybe not). We teach them about crime, abuse etc as well.

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

People demanding that teachers talk to kids about anal sex, choking etc forget that every class will have children with a variety of experiences / backgrounds. An average year 8 class will have some quite young children only just starting puberty, some children already dating, children from different faiths, some children who may have been sexually abused, some with anxiety / eating disorders, some who watch porn and some with special needs & differing abilities. So SRE has to be "conservative" in its nature. Covering the information that all children are entitled to about their bodies and the principles of relationships while ensuring that children aren't exposed to age inappropriate info. And that's tough.
People demanding full on coverage of adult sexual experiences in school SRE really aren't centring the needs of children in all this.

[whatthefreshhell]

Years ago I remember watching a documentary where a school in the north of England which had very high rates of teenage pregnancy and was worried about sexual violence in their young people engaged the services of a specialist sex education teacher from The Netherlands.
She was shocked to find that most of young peoples sexual knowledge and perceptions came from watching porn.
She worked with Students identified as 'at risk' by the school. She worked on what normal bodies look like, consent etc.
She was horrified to find that none of the girls could correctly label the parts of their own genitalia. She gave them small mirrors and asked the girls to go home and look at themselves and understand.
The parents went mental. For asking girls to look at their own bodies in the privacy of their bedrooms, to understand their own bodies better.
When she tackled the parents - lots of fathers as I remember- and explained that this was empowering and she was worried that the young people were getting a false impression by watching porn she was told 'that's just what happens.'
So we would rather our young people educate themselves about their sexual health and safety through porn (which believe me they are doing!) than through structured and supportive teaching with adults who are trained and they trust?

[Mischance]

Most schools provide sensible basic advice about loving relationships and reproduction.

Their problem lies in the fact that they do not know what the children themselves will bring up or ask. Some will want to know about gender issues if they have listened to the news ever.

I do not envy the teachers in this difficult situation.

[fiftyandfat]

I agree with everything you have said whatthefreshhell.
Unfortunately there is no guarantee that all schools are doing this, what with outside providers being brought in to do the lessons and parents being told they are not allowed to see what is being taught.
Responsible parents will check, and if they are told they cannot have that information, that, to me, is a concern.

[SmurfetteSalad]

These companies do exist. There was recently a discussion with founder of one on Radio 4. Schools have outsourced the provision of RSE to private companies who have their own agendas. These companies are not regulated by Ofsted (or anyone).


This is true. Ask your school to show you the curriculum OP. All of it.

[whatthefreshhell]

@fiftyandfat

I agree with everything you have said whatthefreshhell.
Unfortunately there is no guarantee that all schools are doing this, what with outside providers being brought in to do the lessons and parents being told they are not allowed to see what is being taught.
Responsible parents will check, and if they are told they cannot have that information, that, to me, is a concern.

No school lets an outside provider teach anything they haven't seen an verified. And no school refuses to share the contact of their curriculum with parents.

[SmurfetteSalad]

safeschoolsallianceuk.net

You can get help with approaching your school here op.

[SmurfetteSalad]

@whatthefreshhell our school were not going to show us all the materials until MANY parents complained.

[Catsanfan]

OP here, just to say I don't know if that's what they will teach her, it's a religious school so I hope not, I was just concerned about the idea that this material is potentially being taught to her/ other primary children. Sorry for any confusion.