Really need advice D's gf 18 has said her dad has been abusing her...

[Meltinthemiddle]

They have been together 3 years and she is very insecure and needy. Recently they have been arguing more, and D's basically ended the relationship. She was obviously upset. Today DS has just rang to ask if gf can now move in, obviously I was totally confused.
And that's when he told me. Apparently it has happened when she was younger and when he was drunk but hasn't happened since her and D's have been together until recently when they had a party and my D's wasn't there. She can't speak to her mum as never alone, dad apparently is also abusive to her. She has 4 other siblings, one a boy. I feel completely out of my depth and my cynical mind is also wondering if it's true or a ploy to get D's back. But then who would make this up??? Surely not. I can't really afford have her living here long term, plus I have to think of my own D's mental health as he hasn't been happy in the relationship. What do I do? I want to help her and believe her.

I beg your pardon I have never told the OP she was breaking the law!

Of course she’s not. Would you like to take the time to read back and find the actual post in which that was said (if it exists it was not said by me) rather than trigger happily reporting posts?

You’re the one who made a big mistake and you owe me an apology.

You seem to have me confused with @Ilovetea42 who said:

OP you have a legal responsibility to pass this information on to police and social services. Its absolutely non negotiable.

This is 100% sound advice.

You are quite right. The other poster stated untruthfully she would be breaking the law if she didn’t report; you contributed to confusion by posting guff about statutory duties which can’t possibly apply to her
well done you.
I’ve reported your post and hers.

Give her the number for a women’s service and encourage her to call them. They can address potential safeguarding issues and risks during their interactions with her.

Do not try and persuade her that she should go to the police. It isn’t your place or anyone else’s to do that. She needs to be believed, supported, left to make decisions at her pace and to have control back. Going to the police about her case might never be what is right for her, and that needs to be respected.

Re: risk to other children, let professionals deal with that. Sometimes people are actually relived when told that it needs to be raised as a safeguarding issue, as it takes it out of their hands.

You aren’t a trained professional though, just encourage her to get in touch with one, that is a massive step in itself.

The information you’ve been given here is incorrect. The police can and do investigate reports made on behalf of other people, especially in cases of child abuse where there are children living at the same address as the alleged suspect. A lot of reports made to police come from adults/concerned parties who’ve received disclosures from children, rather than the children initially coming to the police themselves- and it is then discovered that other children within the household are also being abuse. Which is why police and social care will jointly liaise with all members of the family to try and get to the bottom of what may be going on and to ascertain whether the other children there have anything to disclose. It may be that DS’s girlfriend does not wish to make a complaint to the police, she’s 18 and she doesn’t have to, however her siblings will be approached too and they may make disclosures of their own.

Once again, the OP is under no legal obligation and the post is seriously misleading. I hope it’s deleted.

No idea where you get off being so rude. It’s not guff. I expanded on your post to explain the difference between legal obligation and statutory guidance as there was some confusion, and outlined the professions where statutory guidance applies.

You the most rude and graceless poster I have ever come across.

Mira will not take kindly to this 🤣 anyway I believe what they said was absolutely correct so not sure why that post should get removed

also ‘posting guff’ I disagree she/he was clearing up the mess a pp made!

@AgathaSpencerGregson Bottom line is - you misread my post as being in support of the the pp’s mistaken assertion, and you simply cannot admit you were wrong.

If it's true, there's no way I believe he just suddenly stopped because she had a boyfriend. He'd have swapped to one of the others instead ☹️ you have to report it for the sake of the others. Speaking to her mum won't necessarily help. Her mum has chosen to stay in an abusive relationship for whatever reason and it's possible she'll defend him.

Thanks @Quitelikeit that’s exactly what I was aiming to do. Anyone can check the accuracy of what I said.

You aren't really qualified to decide if it is real or not. Either way the girl needs some sort of help. Speaking to her mother actually could make things worse, the mother could be complicit. You need to make a referral to your local MASH (Multi Agency Safeguarding Hub) you can Google 'MASH referral + County you live in'.

There was absolutely no relevance to what you posted and in context it was misleading. If you wanted to clear up confusion all you needed to say was “that’s correct, the OP is under no legal duty here.” Less opportunity to parade your knowledge, I suppose, but a lot more helpful.

I retract what I said. It is good advice - apart from the 'legal obligation' part. It is not a legal obligation, and I overlooked that. Thank you for the correction.

Agatha with all due respect of course it was relevant. Someone had posted something that wasn’t quite correct and Mira posted what actually was correct.

I thought it was interesting and helpful to have it clarified considering there’s so much ridiculous advice on the thread.

She cannot say with any certainty her younger sister isn’t being abused… unless she’s making it up. I would report what your ds has told you, including the timing in relation to the break up in a factual way. The police can decide whether or not this is relevant.

As others have already pointed out, you absolutely do have a (moral, not legal) duty to report this. It does not matter if you believe her or not. It does not matter if she has said her siblings are safe. It does not matter if she told you or your DS. You have the infromation that she has stated she has been abused by her father. There are other children in the house. You need to report to your local safegaurding hib. If you google childrens social care in your local area it will send you to the local council social care page which will have contact details for the safeguarding hub and also detail of how and when to report a concern.
Social care will investigate. They will do this sensitively. They will be aware of the possibility it isnt true. They will be aware of possibility of increasing risks by talking to people. They will be aware of the possibility of the girl changing her stpry/backtracking. They will know how and when to talk to the family and waht aciton needs to be taken to keep them safe. They are trained professionals. It is their job. It is what they do day in day out. It is not a good idea for you to go wading in trying to talk to the girl and trying to decide what is true and what isnt.
Please report it to the correct authorites. And then support your son who must also be feeling quite confuded and upset ande leave the investigating to the people trained to deal with it.

hub not hib!

This is completely basics. You have heard an allegation of CSA, it is irrelevant if you think she is lying. It could well be the stress and upset of them breaking up has brought it up for her, you don't know. You need to report it and inform the relevant people, it's absolutely basic safeguarding.
You really don't seem to believe her. I hope for her sake she is lying.

This is third hand information, and the potential involved parties are 19, 18 and 16.

Reporting to SS without this girls knowledge or consent won't do much. She will probably be frightened and deny it, then there's nothing to do and nowhere to go from there and the situation could be made worse.

Op would be far better to support this girl to seek help from the correct places and report this herself.

some people have a shocking lack of
any basic safeguarding awareness. Of course you must report it.

Op hasn't heard it herself.

The people involved are all over 16.

The police/SS won't do anything if they deny it, which they will if its sprung on them.

If true then the SD will get angry that one of them has been talking and who knows what will happen then.

If there ever comes a time they do report it this will be brought up, and the inevitable denial will be brought up too.

It's hard enough to get anyone to take any action when something is reported by the actual victim, let alone through someone who spoke to someone else who spoke to the victim.

I get the knee jerk reaction of telling op to report with no regard for the victims wants or feelings, but it would be far better for op to support this girl to report this herself. She will be listened to, supported, and the relevant agencies can do far more about it than through third hand information.

Sometimes the right course of action isn't the quickest course of action.

Having just attended a safeguarding course (I volunteer for a childrens' charity), we were told that if one of the children tells you they have been abused we MUST report it. Whether we feel there is likely to be any truth to it or not, it is not our decision to make. In our case to the safeguarding lead at the headquarters of the charity in the first instance for guidance or if they cannot be contacted, then the Police. This MUST be done regardless of whether the child has begged us not to tell anyone. We were told there is no option not to report.

For context, before I joined the charity, they had a case of a girl who was constantly accusing her step-father of physical abuse. The man was investigated numerous times by the relevant authorities and it was found there was no case to answer. It eventually lead to the break up of the marriage. The girl later admitted that she did it because she wanted her mum to herself, but there was no way that the situation should have gone unreported, because it may have been true. A terribly difficult and sad case for all involved.

Many of us on here not only attend safeguarding courses, but deliver them.

It's comparing apples and oranges in this case. The girl is not a minor, and the OP has heard about it from a 3rd party. Those are the only FACTS any of us, including the OP has.

When I am at school, either my state school in term time, or the summer residential school I'll be in next month, then sure, if one of the minors, for whom I'm responsible, discloses something, I have a clear protocol to work from, and a clear chain of command to send the information to.

None of that is relevant to the OP.
The only choice she has is really this:

Police
SS
Nothing.

The second would probably refer in this instance to the first, given that with a disclosure of ongoing abuse made only 48 hours earlier, the first tenet of safeguarding (be that of adults or minors) 'is the person safe now" would, in the absence of any other information, get the answer "we don't know" which means it's not "yes" which would lead to an intervention/removal of the alleged abuser pending further action.