Ioan Gruffudd daughter in news

[HelenaBellena]

Again this is in the news with him getting a restraining order. I always thought Alice was nuts but I've been reading that Ioan isn't as nice as he makes out. And those silly staged pics of him and his girlfriend.

Definitely! It actually made me think of men going “are you on your period??” It’s inconceivable to him that she might just be a bit angry at what he’s done.

A lot of people have posted some MRA lines about how “ACTUALLY women can be abusers too!” and of course that’s true even though they usually aren’t. However they ignore some other gendered elements: how much men in US courts are rewarded for a counter-accusation of abuse, b) the general habit of calling women and girls mad/needing therapy, c) there is no good evidence that parental alienation is even a thing but it is almost always successfully levelled by men against women (in fact it’s so successful something like 80% men who allege parental alienation after an accusation they are abusive win full custody), d) just the amount that is expected of Alice? She has been deceived, gaslit, insulted, publicly humiliated, she found out that her entire life was a lie and her heart has been broken, she’s been kicked out of her home, she’s become a single mother. Ioan has stopped her even venting on social media. Not only is she expected to keep her sanity in all this, but she’s also expected in front of her children (who she has been left to care for 24/7) to pretend everything is fine, to repeat her husband’s version of events that nobody has done anything wrong to everybody, and if her children ever notice how dad’s choices have negatively affected them she’s expected to ‘correct’ them and become an accomplice in the deceit. She’s not even allowed to be angry with daddy in private behind the children’s back. He’s ruined her life but she’s expected to be a model of good behaviour in her texts, in her emails. It’s just so much to ask of someone and it is never asked of men.

AFAIK he and Alice broke up in late 2020 (after he had already told his intentions months earlier) and he and Bianca went official in late 2021. Now I will not be judging whether there was overlap or not but I notice that many posts in this thread run with the assumption that he somehow left Alice and the next day he and Bianca moved together. A one year gap between ending your marriage and starting a new relationship really isnt anything extraordinary.

Also it's Ella (or well, I suspect it's more her mother) that by requesting this restraining order has put her behavior into the public domain. She mentioned the whole mustard and oats throwing stuff herself. Of course Ioan and Bianca were always going to respond with even more things she has done to put more context into the incident, but I can't blame them for this. It would be pretty silly to not fight a restraining order. They also have to lay out everything so that the judge understands the severity of the situation. It's really a shame that these things arent sealed in the states though. I understand that they want to make family law more transparent but things about minor children should alway be automatically sealed.

So there is absolutely nothing documented then, to say that Alice ever told the children that if they left her she would kill herself.

Because saying “the kids are betraying her if they go to their father” is not the same as her telling the kids that she will kill herself if they go to their father.

And her saying “Ioan wants her to die” is not the same as her telling the kids that she will kill herself if they go to their father.

It's pretty certain that she is in fact telling her kids such things

Not, actually, it’s not. It’s adding 2 + 2 and coming up with 5. You have no idea that she has ever said that to her kids and I’m not okay with someone stating it as fact on this thread.

Ella is a child, copying her dad’s behaviour (who took out a restraining order against her mum to stop her mum doing things he didn’t like). He did not have to put that detail in there. He could have said you know what, I clearly need to give you some space here. It was too soon, I’m sorry. He chose to fight her.

AFAIK he and Alice broke up in late 2020 (after he had already told his intentions months earlier) and he and Bianca went official in late 2021. Now I will not be judging whether there was overlap or not but I notice that many posts in this thread run with the assumption that he somehow left Alice and the next day he and Bianca moved together. A one year gap between ending your marriage and starting a new relationship really isnt anything extraordinary.

I think they run with the assumption that there was an affair because he could only have met Bianca whilst he was filming in Australia and still married to Alice.

He broke up with Alice upon his return from Australia and didn’t go out there again. So he couldn’t possibly have met Bianca after leaving Alice.

Bianca then packed her entire life up and flew out to meet him in France and then came back to LA with him. She would have needed to arrange a Visa for living in America in advance.

I can understand why people think there was an affair. The timeline just doesn’t make sense otherwise.

Not that I’m judging him for that. I’m judging him for how insensitive and dismissive he has been towards his daughters’ feelings.

The father requested a legit restraining order for legit harrasment while she has basically asked for one because she cant boss her father around, I'm not sure where she is copying her father.

He has to "fight" her because the judge needs to understand that the child's request is very outlandish (at least the one against her father) and that there are clearly issues involved that go way beyond being a bit angry because your father introduces you to his girlfriend of 2 years, so that you can convince the judge that actions need to be taken to help her. This thread keeps blaming him for not trying to get sole custody of the kids or serious help and whatnot, but then you expect him to not do anything as well.

We also dont know what conversations these people have. He may well tell them that he is sorry that their family unit is broken, but that is just the way it is etc. It would be wrong of him to take the blame on this as this would teach them that it's wrong to leave abusive relationships. It is also possible that to them he takes responsibilities for other things, he will hardly state them in court filings, wont he?

Yeah I think he’s creatively reinterpreted the timeline and thought that would do the trick in not blowing up his relationship with his daughters. Kids and wives aren’t stupid though!

With all due respect it's clearly documented that Alice was threatening Ioan with getting new boyfriends and divorce and whatnot months before he even brought up divorcing her. She wasnt shocked or gaslit, that's just the narrative she came up with to gather more support. And it worked.

Is it well documented, though?

Or is it well documented in the same way that Alice apparently told her children that if they left her she would kill herself i.e. made up.

She wasnt shocked or gaslit

You might think she wasn’t shocked or gaslit, but you have no idea, because you are not her.

People do feel shocked when their spouse leaves them, regardless of the state of the marriage beforehand.

I’m really not meaning to be rude, but why do you think your opinion on how Alice felt at the end of her marriage, carries more weight than Alice’s opinion?

There is a video transcript of Alice threatening him with a new boyfriend in the summer of 2020 and one eye witness said that she was threatening Ioan with divorce during a phone call in early 2020. So yes, at the very least the former is documented.

Was she shocked that Ioan couldnt take it anymore and eventually left? sure, but it isnt the big out of the blue leaving a perfect marriage she tried to portray. and even if it was it doesnt excuse the things she has done.

It's a tad striking that things that are actually documented and backed up with evidence are questioned here, but any assumption that works against the father is pretty much seen as a fact. Neither the affair (although I agree its likely) nor that he suprised the kids with meeting the girlfriend (in fact that seems disproven) are in any way backed up, but yet it's what the focus seems to be. That Alice actually implied on twitter many times that she would kill herself if she was to "lose the kids" (which she has made clear is not having sole custody) and that she admitted the kids read her tweets and that Ioan testified that she made concerning statements around the kids on the other hand is "too much speculation". I mean...

I have nothing against criticising the father for things he did or even things you believe he did, everyone has a opinion. But then it's odd to try to shut down discussions about the mother, especially when they are better backed up.

I am absolutely not trying to shut down a discussion about Alice, though. I have read the court documents, and I knew for a fact that it is not documented that she “repeatedly told her children that if they left her, she would kill herself”. So no, sorry, I’m not going to let that go unchallenged. I don’t care how badly Alice has behaved, that was not true.

That Alice actually implied on twitter many times that she would kill herself if she was to "lose the kids" (which she has made clear is not having sole custody) and that she admitted the kids read her tweets and that Ioan testified that she made concerning statements around the kids on the other hand is "too much speculation". I mean...

It is not even speculation, though. To conclude from a couple of stupid, emotional statements she wrote on Twitter that she “repeatedly told the girls she would kill herself if they left her” is pure fantasy.

There is a video transcript of Alice threatening him with a new boyfriend in the summer of 2020

You mean the video recording of the drunken argument Alice was having with herself, essentially. You really think her drunk rambling about her getting a new boyfriend was interpreted by Ioan as a serious threat?

and one eye witness said that she was threatening Ioan with divorce during a phone call in early 2020.

And the context around this one would be when the world was about to go into lockdown and Ioan was refusing to return home from Australia. I think I could possibly have threatened my own husband with divorce in those circumstances if he was willing to risk being apart from me and our children for an undetermined and indefinite period of time.

But then it's odd to try to shut down discussions about the mother, especially when they are better backed up.

I don’t think anything you have said here is “better backed up” at all. Not one thing you have said is “backed up”. We are looking at the same information and interpreting it through different lenses. You have a more negative view of Alice, whereas I’m not on anyone’s side (apart from the kids) so the situation is not as black and white to me as it is to you.

I understand not everyone has read the court documents themselves and I’m happy to signpost for the genuine posters asking questions as I have done earlier in the thread.

What’s irritating though is the posters like Vivio that you’ve replied to who claims to have read the papers herself but then still wants to question or dispute the contents. If people are going to claim they’ve read the papers themselves then they would already know of this exact example you have given yet.

Vivio, if you have read the papers why don’t you already know of this example? Are you being disingenuous claiming to have read them and if so, why are you so forcefully commenting on this topic when you are coming from a place of ignorance (I.e. not having the full knowledge of the court papers)?

You’re also expecting people to do the work for you by giving you specific examples to back up their statements, people aren’t your skivvies, the papers are public and available to you in the same way they are for everyone else.

Quite honestly your ignorance of the court paper contents leads me to believe your claim that you’ve read them all is false so I don’t trust what you post.

Quite honestly your ignorance of the court paper contents leads me to believe your claim that you’ve read them all is false so I don’t trust what you post.

My “ignorance of the court paper contents” 🤣.

I couldn’t care less, Merlin.

I find all the Ioan supporters to be a really odd bunch. I’d love to share my views of you all here, but I’d probably get banned from Mumsnet.

You don’t have to care about what I say Vivio, it won’t stop me calling out your hypocrisy (you expect others to provide extra information to quantify their opinions but when you’re called out, you don’t believe this same standard applies to you and your response is to react childishly with emoji’s and calling people odd instead of legitimising what you’re claiming).

Calling out abuse is not the same as being an ‘Ioan supporter’ but actually if that makes me and other posters ‘odd’ in your opinion, you can only imagine what we might think of someone like yourself who has admitted they would use divorce as an ultimatum to their husband, coercive control much?!

I can’t make sense of your word salad there, Merlin.

What is it you are trying to say?

That I’m a hypocrite who expects others to do the work for me but doesn’t do the work in return to legitimise my claims but you're still going to call me out as an emoji using, self admitted, ultimatum issuing childish coercive controller?

Have I got that right?

Do you know what hypocrite means?

What exactly are my claims? Why do I need to legitimise claims that I’m not even making? 🤣

By all the women I meant all the women in his family - his wife and daughters.

I thought as much, but didn’t want to speak for you.

Just because Gruffudd and his friends say something is fact in filed court documents doesn’t mean that they are. Once again a lot of what he says is supposition. He doesn’t know for sure that AE created the accounts. For all he knows she confided in friends (which is her right to do) who then went straight onto social media.

Gruffudd alleges that AE set him up but he is the one surrounded by witnesses who are also friends. He could well have set the situation up himself. He must have known how the girls would react to BW’s presence. He doesn’t take responsibility for anything, which does not make sense. Even Jonny Depp owned up to his share of the bad behaviour. But no, Gruffudd is a saint with no responsibility for his girls’ mental health.

Does BW think herself so lovely that the girls would swoon over her when in their mind she and their father are responsible for the loss of their beloved home?

The girls have lost so much and the counsellor present seems baffled by their behaviour? As if he hasn’t seen this behaviour before? Where has he been all his career?

Does anyone else find it appalling that a father would describe his daughter’s behaviour as “unhinged” and have an attitude towards her mental health that makes it seem like bad behaviour - as though she can control it. What if she had a “quieter” mental illness like an eating disorder? Would he still treat it like “naughtiness”. I really can’t stand to read his mealy mouthed accusations against Ella whose behaviour he describes as abusive towards HIM. What a piece of work.

Again, I completely agree @Fisharejumping

To answer your question, I do understand what ‘hypocrite’ means. I don’t know why you asked that, perhaps it’s projection as you appeared to be the one who is struggling with the meaning of words given you’re seeking clarity for people’s posts. Don’t be embarrassed about it, everyone has different strengths and I’m happy to simplify for you. So to simplify; yes my opinion of you is as you’ve said.

The claim I said you haven’t been able to legitimise (aka support) is your claim that you’ve read the court documents but despite claiming to know the contents, you continually ask other posters to provide you with specific examples (which you wouldn’t need if you had read them as you would have access to the same examples they do).

You almost demand other posters provide you with proof of their knowledge but your hypocrisy comes from how you react when anyone who challenges you on your knowledge. You either react negatively or deflect or both (I mean it was a huge deflection resorting to name calling people ‘odd’ just because you didn’t want to answer the simple question of why you are asking other people for specifics if you’ve read the same documents they have).

Aww, Merlin. Please don’t think so poorly of me. Please give me one more chance for you to simplify things for me and for me to legitimise my claims.

The claim I said you haven’t been able to legitimise (aka support) is your claim that you’ve read the court documents but despite claiming to know the contents, you continually ask other posters to provide you with specific examples (which you wouldn’t need if you had read them as you would have access to the same examples they do).

They are rather long to be fair 😀

The one I skimmed was over 100 pages.

Though I can't find anything to support suicide threats. Seems it might have been ambiguous Twitter posts by AE, now deleted.

I think claims of being IG and BW being set up are rather far fetched, if that's true.

That visit sounded like a car crash. Yes, there was a neutral presence there to advise I and B throughout, but that will have made for an uncomfortable environment for the girls surely.

Tricky situation all round.

You’re deflecting again, you really don’t want to answer the question of why you ask other people for specifics if you’ve read the same documents they have.

Look, Merlin, I thought it was obvious, but I’m now going to explain it to you so that you understand.

A poster said:

”Alice has told the girls repeatedly that she will kill herself if they leave her.”

I asked how she knew that. Her response:

“It has been documented by those who were there / heard it. And as stated by the girls.”

Now, having read the documents myself, I knew this was never said or documented anywhere, so I asked her to show me where it was documented, knowing that she wouldn’t be able to.

Rather than just admit that she was mistaken, that it was never said and that she wouldn’t be able to post that part of the document because it doesn’t exist, she called me an abuser and said:

“I have the documentation open in front of me with quotes however given how vile Vivio has been throughout this discussion and the completely unsubstantiated claims she makes about Ioan / Bianca and her anger when anything critical is said about Alice - when I am one of the only ones actually posting documentated facts, I am out”

Actually, that poster sounds a bit like you, Merlin.

Did I embarrass you earlier sweetie?