DS kicked out of Uni after 2nd year - what now?

[FeelingAtTheEndOfMyTether]

Totally furious but trying to keep my cool although he is well aware of how disappointed we are in him!

He rang me yesterday after being told apparently that morning, Has been pretending all fine for a while. I even sent him a massive treat parcel thinking he was cramming to finish his project last week!

Apparently he was supposed to resit modules from his 1st year but he hadn’t even done that (he never told us and lied that he’d passed it all), in addition to not completing all his modules this year and only 40% attendance (that’s what he said but probably lower than that!).

DH went to pick him up from his halls tonight and get all his stuff so back at home now with student overdraft maxed out (£1500) and not a penny to his name.

He lived at home in first year and we hoped moving into halls might make him grow up and sort his shit out. Bloody waste of £10k on accommodation!

He didn’t get a part time job at all this year despite promising he would get a job as going into halls as we couldn’t afford to give him extra money but been giving him regular money to buy groceries (maintenance loan covered accommodation and a few hundred a month left over).

So not working or doing his actual Uni work!

He had crap attendance last year as well and I was shocked that he got onto 2nd year. I did tell him last summer to withdraw, take a year out, work and either continue or start again when he’s ready but he insisted he’d work this time.

Uni is out now as won’t get funding for another 3 years and Uni has said he’d have to repeat Yr1.

He didn’t work last year either and has only held part time jobs for a few weeks at a time since leaving school.

He has a extended BTEC in an area which will not directly lead to a job and As and A*s in his GCSEs in Maths and Sciences (he actually ditched his A levels in Maths and 2 Sciences to do the BTEC so has already had an extra year in college), but D in English and didn’t resit it.

Uni course would have given him lots of options in career.

Cannot convey how angry I am at him (and sorry for him) but logically know it’s not the end of the world, glad he’s safely back home and he still has time to turn it around.

I’ve told him he’s got two weeks to get a job or ……….. what? I don’t know as can’t kick him out! His PC is not being set up at home. I’m surprised DH hasn’t taken a hammer to it tonight.

He’s highly intelligent but extremely lazy with a gaming addiction which he has now admitted after many years of arguing about and denying. No drugs, rarely drinks, in the main a good, caring lad but just wants to sit on his arse gaming all night and sleeping all day.

What to do?

I've a friend whose son was a bit like this (though younger - got ok GCSEs, but then pissed around at A-level and was on the verge of being kicked out of college just because of his laziness).

He did a lot of gaming, though I don't think it went as far as addiction. He was a really nice lad, very kind and helpful, but I think he sort of got the point where everything around him was depressing him. Lots of classmates into drinking/drugs, felt like there was no real prospect of doing anything in life except working for some soulless company to pay the rent etc. Careers talks at school were all about how much money you could make etc.

One thing that helped him was that he started volunteering at a food bank, and he said it made him realise that there are loads of people out there "just doing nice stuff", in his words. It seemed to help him find a bit of a goal in life that wasn't just making money - he's now back at college and doing well, got a weekend job coaching kids in sports, and has a group of random people he's met from the food bank and some community tidy-up thing that he did.

I'm not saying this is the solution for your son, but could it be that he's lacking a bit of direction and has become a bit depressed and aimless?

I certainly agree with taking him to the GP for the gaming addiction, but also to look into possible ADHD as he has some traits. Could you also encourage him to do some volunteering or take up a hobby or something where he meets a wider range of people?

In terms of a job, I'd give him a bit of breathing space (a couple of months or so) if he feels he's not ready just yet (subject to whatever the GP says), but basically get him doing chores every day so you get a break. Maybe have a few days out with him here and there over the summer, just spending time together doing fun stuff. Just give him gentle support for the time being (assuming you can afford it).

Once he's had a bit of time, talk to him about the future. Eventually you can give him the ultimatum "get a job or move out", but I wouldn't do it while he's feeling quite raw and probably disappointed in himself. Build him up a bit and help him to help himself, basically.

He is an adult so the parents have limited ability to control his gaming. However, if the computer was bought by them I would be eyeing it up as a means to recoup some of the costs.

A PP was sniffy about this (!) but gaming is the biggest sector of the British home entertainment industry and one of the country's global success stories. Maybe some sort of apprenticeship?

(DD is currently doing a summer internship; she's studying illustration and her fellow intern is a graphics design student. Their brief is to produce 2D assets and UI for a simple educational game, which is great for all sorts of reasons.)

And so agree with @TheOriginalMrsMoss about universities being complicit in this. What an overall brilliant post.

If you want some experienced input I’ve been there ish. Not due to laziness but anxiety with exams and left right in the middle of my 4th year. I do have an amazing job. The worst part of coping with the decision was my parents huffiness when I left. Granted your son got kicked out because of laziness but still.
i second the advice to get him up before you leave for work. Full blown list of chores and he can cook the evening meal and do the weekly shop, ask to physically see the job applications he has completed. He has a home, heat bed and food-that shouldn’t be a handout at his age. Explain you are angry with him but know it’s not the end of the world but there are consequences to his actions and spell them out. Also reassure him you love him and your anger and disappointment come from love and wanting to see him do his best. And don’t huff. Also 100% NO computer! He seriously needs a clean break from it as it’s just cost him a degree!

What an ignorant post. ADD and autism are neurological conditions, not mental health disorders.

Typical armchair expert.

This would be like suggesting an alcoholic gets a job in a distillery or a wine shop!

It maybe a possibility if he gets help for gaming addiction but not before then.

*I think the Universities are complicit in this. They actually gain additional revenue from this situation but take no responsibility for selecting unsuitable students. I think it's a national scandal that young people are saddled with debt from unfinished, unsuitable or worthless qualifications. It's sickening.

The Universities are a fee driven business machine with little or no concern for suitability at outset or welfare of the students. It's bums on seats and students are fee fodder - they take on all the risk and financial ramifications at an age where many don't fully understand the long term effects.*

Totally agree with this.

It isn't a university's job to mollycoddle a grown adult into doing what's necessary to pass rhe course. They're grown adults and need to take resppnsibility for their choices eventually. There will have been entry requirements but what do you expect the lecturers to do? Go to their house and turn their computer off? Drag them by the ear to their 9am lecture? Most lecturers will gladly help a student if they ask for it but most are doing a research job alongside said lectures and it really isn't their job to babysit poorly motivated adults. I personally found the pastoral support at my uni to be very supportive but there is only so much they can do. This is ultimately OP's son's problem to solve. I don't think being angry or unkind to him will be helpful but I think based on what OP has said he's a personality type that will only kick his own backside into gear when he's given no other choice. I have a brother and a brother in law who are very similar to this. I promise you OP the only time they straighten out and learn to look after themselves is when you stop enabling them to be so thoughtless, lazy and co-dependent. There may be some underlying mood problems and I'd encourage him to seek counselling/therapy for this and GP if he thinks it's severe but at the end of the day even mentally unwell people need to take responsibility for themselves and their own happiness and health.

dropthevipers · Today 03:21
Time for a crash course in life on planet earth. get a job. any job. pay rent. chores around the house. After a while, he can then sort out what he actually wants to do which looks realistic. (i.e. not taking the piss on a uni course doing fuck all)

• yes, basically if he has good mental health. but as he has gaming addiction, this will require intervention

Just wanted to pick out this bit of your post

Honestly, most of them probably just can't concentrate cos they spend too much time staring at a screen and constant stimulation

You do realise that people with ADHD crave stimulation because the stimulation delivers a bit of dopamine to the right area of our brain

No stimulation= No dopamine= No concentration.

You are thinking like a NT person with your one thought at a time mind and times when you can empty your head and not have a single thought.

Next you will be advising to stay off the red bull at bedtime as it will not help him sleep.

Agree 100%, what a great post.

Blair is also to blame for this. Lots of young people are not suited for universities and pushing them when they are unsuited and unmotivated can create more problems than they solve 😔.

That's a lot of words when writing "this post is ignorant of how universities work" would have been more accurate and concise.

Do you have a medical degree or any relevant experience at all in order to spout your nonsensical opinions as fact?

Absolutely this. What evidence does @Thinkwicebeforeyouleavemylife have that ADHD is 'over diagnosed'?

I was diagnosed with autism and ADHD as an adult, and one of my kids has ADHD. Diagnoses are not get out jail free cards or fashionable labels, but an explanation of who you are and how your brain functions, after a lifetime of measuring yourself against other people's 'normal' and not knowing where you're going wrong.

I don't think a neurotypical person can appreciate how difficult it is not just to function in a world not set up for people like you, but not to even understand why you can't cope. I can think of so many people from my childhood and earlier life (including family members) who were clearly neurodiverse, but in those days were just seen as under-achievers, eccentric, misfits, stupid, naughty, lazy, etc.

Thank goodness there's now a bit of recognition that neurodiversity exists and affects a much larger number of people than was previously thought, but it's upsetting and frustrating that some people still don't think twice about expressing ill-informed prejudices.

Of course you can't diagnose from a social media post, but it's certainly worth the OP and her son exploring/reading about ADHD because the description is sadly not an unusual pattern for people with (particularly undiagnosed) ADHD.

I tend to agree with you.

Again, it's really not helpful to blame the university for this adult's lack of ability to take responsibility for himself. It's completely deflecting any personal responsibility and it's exactly why kids today are growing up so entitled and lacking resilience. He may have found the course difficult, no shame in that. However, he's refused to do anything else to support himself. He's dome nothing by the sounds of it for 2 years. Is it the university's fault that he wouldn't get a job as well? The course is what it is. He either perserveres with it or finds another way to support himself. It's not up to the university to be his life coach

Hi OP
Sorry you're going through this. FWIW, my DS went through similar, although it was at A level time rather than university. We were at our wits' end trying to get him to stop spending all his time gaming with mates instead of doing coursework, his attendance started slipping, he promised to pull his socks up, but eventually he admitted that spending all his time gaming was the only thing keeping his depression at bay. It had all got a bit much for him and he had actually got to the stage of having some very dark thoughts and gaming was a way to try and shut it all out. Thankfully , once he admitted it we were able to get help, and he is now out the other side. Might it be worth exploring this with him? Mine was very good at hiding how bad it actually was, although we did begin to worry something was up.
Whatever the problem, good luck with helping him through. Hopefully he'll turn it around with your help. They don't tell you about this bit in the parenting manuals, do they!

ADHD is listed in the SEN Code of Practice under ‘social, emotional and mental health.’ OP’s son is probably feeling guilt, shame, worry, anxiety… of course supporting his mental health needs to be the first priority, as @nosykids said. There was nothing ignorant about the post at all - crashing and burning at uni like OP’s son is common for young adults with ADHD.

Dh failed his second year (having already done his first year twice!). He was able to transfer to a slightly different less intense course at a different uni (ex-Poly), into their final year as they gave him credits for what he'd already done. Might be worth a shot?

I am not ignorant - I have a lot of lived experience of autism and ADHD and am constantly reading in order to understand more.

Anyone with any experience of ASD and ADHD knows that, whilst they are not mental health disorders in themselves, living in a world designed by and for NT people can lead to mental health difficulties.

All three of my dc are autistic - my dd in particular has struggled, in the most serious way, with her mental health. Undiagnosed ND is a big cause of mental health difficulties.

I think you should apologise, but I doubt you will.

What the SEN code of practice states is irrelevant. ADD is a neurological condition, not a mental health condition.

Op I have 4 sons, 3 went, and never finished, Uni. They all have really good jobs now, but as soon as they left/came home I told them you have 2 weeks to get a job, any job, or you will have to volunteer and go and work in one of the local charity shops!
Once they were working it made them focus more on what they actually wanted to do. Now one is working for a tech company, another is a train driver, and the other is a marketing manager.
I have many friends whose DC's have graduated, but have never done a job remotely related to their degree.
My great neice, instead of opting for Uni took a job in merchant banking and is now purchasing her own property, unlike her older brothers who went to Uni!
I would suggest that he tries to get a job in a shop that specialises in gaming etc as his knowledge around it will be useful.
Don't despair, yet!!

@FeelingAtTheEndOfMyTether I really sympathise. I'd be livid, not so much at the dropping out but the fibbing about doing the work etc. I really hope everything works out for you and him.

Everyone I know who has made any money from gaming, either within games or through the games design industry, stopped simply playing games by their mid teens. By this point they were already designing games, programming, animation, or starting to make money within games. Their whole approach to games had shifted; they were no longer immersed in gaming worlds but were taking more ‘academic’ or ‘entrepreneurship’ approach; choosing games for money making potential or for design aspects. They also chose school subjects to support this; English, Art, Maths etc. They all worked hard and were disciplined - even those making a living from the games themselves.

It is totally unrealistic to say because someone is addicted to gaming they can do this, especially if they are otherwise shown to be lacking self-discipline.