To stay in the UK or move to Oz

[Unsure05]

DH and I are so on the fence here so we need some random strangers on the internets opinions please 😅 we have to DD (nearly 3 and 12 weeks old) and we have an opportunity to move to Australia. I have family in Melbourne and have been a few times and known from a young age I’d love to travel round or experience living there. DH has never been but has always wanted to visit and would be happy to move and try it if that’s what we decide. His job is on the skilled occupation list but until we go further with the migration agent we’ve chatted to we won’t know what are of Australia we could potentially move to but we don’t really mind either way.

Our issue here is that we just can’t get over the guilt of leaving our families here. Mine and DH parents are here and my sister and her DD. We see the grandparents every few weeks and our daughter loves her cousin. We just have never felt settled in the UK and know we would love the Aussie way of life. Plus with everything just going downhill in the UK it’s not getting much better and we aren’t bothered about staying, it would only be for family. But that’s a big thing! Financially we only really have this big move in us or buy a house here. Also need to add that the last time my mum went to visit her sister in Oz she said it would maybe be one of the last times she could do the trip with how long and gruelling it can be. My dad would probably not be able to do it and my DHs dad would defiantly not as he’s not very well so it would be down to us to come see them and it’s so expensive so we would hardly see them I think! I’m just so torn! What would you guys do?

[LadyCassandra]

We moved to Sydney 13 years ago. It is a completely selfish decision, selfish in that we wanted a good life for us and our kids. Once you come to terms with that then everything else is a no-brained.
I just came back to the UK for 2 months (a funeral and then a planned holiday) and the cost of everything was insane. Literally double what we pay in Aus. The only thing not wad rent/housing and it is an issue but wages are higher here.
It hasn’t always been easy here but we don’t regret a thing, and our older 2 kids (14 and 11) after this trip said they were happy we made the move.

[Aslanplustwo]

I keep reading things like this. Is the UK not going to be affected by climate change then? What a lucky little part of the world it must be.

[illiterato]

@Aslanplustwo

I keep reading things like this. Is the UK not going to be affected by climate change then? What a lucky little part of the world it must be.

Well not to the same extent due to its latitude and also the likely impact of CC on the Gulf Stream.

[Dazedandbemused0]

Definitely Australia! I moved abroad and have never regretted it! The UK is getting worse and worse. Escape! It will still be there when you want to go back.

[CallItLoneliness]

@Aslanplustwo

I keep reading things like this. Is the UK not going to be affected by climate change then? What a lucky little part of the world it must be.

I mean....yes, there will be fires in Australia, and that will make it more highly urbanised. But having seen how London didn't cope with ONE day of 40 degree heat last summer (I was literally in London that day_)...you are looking at significant cultural and structural change there too.

[TiredOfCleaning]

I think my main point would be; 'Never turn down a great opportunity'.

You can go for a short time as pp said and decide after your short time is up.

[HomeB]

"This, BTW, is bullshit: you don’t get the fun of going to a new country with different food, history, buildings etc unless you’re prepared to travel a LONG way. unless you don't think of New Zealand as having a unique culture, or New Caledonia, or (if you live in Perth) Singapore. It is further than France, for sure, but so is your nearest major city in Australia. The distances here are BIG."

Says it's bullshit before going on to explain how it's not 🤣. Anyone who is going to argue that Australia is not isolated compared to the UK can probably be ignored OP.

[marapournumber4]

@Seasonofthewitch83

This is something DH and I think about a lot. DH is originally from Sydney and whilst he loves and misses his family, he doesn't talk to them a lot - I have to remind him about doing a video call etc. Whereas I talk to my family all day every day, and even though we are scattered a bit over the country now, we are only a few hours away from each other and see each other often.

We love NSW, love the culture, the people, the beaches and mountains, the humor. But I worry that we would be limiting DDs opportunities, it seems many young are off to Europe like a shot.

Its also weird to have no historical connection to a country's culture. You dont know who their celebrities are, the tv shows, the famous faces. Without realising it in the UK, you have grown up being shaped by certain faces, events, tv. Its hard for all of that to feel alien.

They are off like a shot for a year or 2 and then the vast majority come back. We are a nation of travellers, but tend to always come home.

[Lateliein]

My pp is based on experience of working in oz for a year in my 20s. I was shocked at the unabashed prejudice towards Aborigines or "bloody Abbos" when I worked in a bar.

Diversity, inclusion, progression, representation... Not a priority. Not a place I'd want my kids to grow up in.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-63699881.amp

[bluetongue]

Aussie here.

You’d want to have good jobs to come to with in demand skills.

Housing is a massive issue. Average prices to buy a place in at major city is exorbitant and rental vacancy rates are at record lows. It’s dog eat dog just to find a place to live. I’ve never lived in the UK but I get the impression that apart from London and maybe Edinborough it’s easier and cheaper to find somewhere to live there.

Also don’t underestimate the cost of travel and distances involved. Even an interstate trip is $$$. I usually stay in my city most of the time and save up for a bigger trip once every year or two.

[CallItLoneliness]

@HomeB

"This, BTW, is bullshit: you don’t get the fun of going to a new country with different food, history, buildings etc unless you’re prepared to travel a LONG way. unless you don't think of New Zealand as having a unique culture, or New Caledonia, or (if you live in Perth) Singapore. It is further than France, for sure, but so is your nearest major city in Australia. The distances here are BIG."

Says it's bullshit before going on to explain how it's not 🤣. Anyone who is going to argue that Australia is not isolated compared to the UK can probably be ignored OP.

Yet another failure to understand the local geography. Darwin is a long way from where I am but New Caledonia is close. Indonesia is close to Darwin. So is Singapore. Stop trying to hide the racism that says only European culture is "culture".

[LotsOfBalloons]

We've got a fair bit of family in Australia. Like the pp they tend to stay in their city most of the time as air fares to another city is expensive so not done too often.

This is just SO different to being able to drive to a whole range of different towns here in England within a couple of hours. I think it's one of the biggest differences that's underestimated by UK people travelling to Australia. (On the other hand Melbourne is lovely so why not stay there most of the year....)

[HomeB]

"Yet another failure to understand the local geography. Darwin is a long way from where I am but New Caledonia is close. Indonesia is close to Darwin. So is Singapore. Stop trying to hide the racism that says only European culture is "culture"."

Don't be so stupid and offensive. I've been to all of those places. I'm amused by you because you said those places are close then in the next breath said "the distances are BIG".

Darwin is a 5 hour flight from Singapore. I know because I've fucking done it. From the UK I can be a good way into Africa on a flight that length, practically in Canada and all over Europe. It's not racism and my geography is fucking top notch. Yours seems sketchy Nate

[HomeB]

*mate. I don't know who Nate is 🤷🏽‍♀️

[LavenderLaughs]

How can you “know” you would “love the Aussie way of life” when you’ve never lived there and your husband has never even visited? I grew up in Australia and although it has many good points it’s just a place, with pros and cons like any other. It’s not a wonderland that everyone living there “loves”. It’s very parochial, the weather is challenging, it’s inconveniently far away from the UK, and Australians can be incredibly chippy and patronising. And I say that as someone who was born there and returns frequently. It’s a lovely place to visit, but best to think long and hard before you make such a commitment

[CallItLoneliness]

@HomeB

"Yet another failure to understand the local geography. Darwin is a long way from where I am but New Caledonia is close. Indonesia is close to Darwin. So is Singapore. Stop trying to hide the racism that says only European culture is "culture"."

Don't be so stupid and offensive. I've been to all of those places. I'm amused by you because you said those places are close then in the next breath said "the distances are BIG".

Darwin is a 5 hour flight from Singapore. I know because I've fucking done it. From the UK I can be a good way into Africa on a flight that length, practically in Canada and all over Europe. It's not racism and my geography is fucking top notch. Yours seems sketchy Nate

I am not your "mate". Neither am I being stupid or offensive, this isn't my first mumsnet rodeo of Australia-bashing or NZ-bashing. And I don't know where in Canada you think you can get to in 5 hours, now that the Concorde is gone. The distances within Australia are big. The distances FROM many parts of Australia to other countries are much smaller.

[HoppingPavlova]

I am not your "mate"

There is always one in every circus. Generally, exactly the same type that goes off their tree when you say ‘no worries’, which to us means about 10 different things and we know exactly which depending on the context of the situation, but they don’t have that inherent understanding and will screech ‘but there is a problem/don’t tell me no worries’ etc.

[Outofthepark]

@Unsure05

Thanks guys I feel like I know just how much we would love the life over there but the family pull would really hurt. Just don’t want to regret not making the move either as the UK is just getting harder to live in in our opinion it’s so hard

I definitely wouldn't, and I'd usually travel anywhere anytime at the drop of a hat if I could!! 😁 Reason is you're obviously close to your family and you're very lucky and you even still have grandparents - I think the guilt of leaving them and missing them would stay you (I'm not judging, I just think you'll personally feel this way after you've settled there and it'll be too late to go back).

Saying that, in a few years when the family situation may be different, why not go for it then? Might be a case of right plan, wrong time.

[marapournumber4]

@Lateliein

My pp is based on experience of working in oz for a year in my 20s. I was shocked at the unabashed prejudice towards Aborigines or "bloody Abbos" when I worked in a bar.

Diversity, inclusion, progression, representation... Not a priority. Not a place I'd want my kids to grow up in.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-63699881.amp

Stan Grant has had high profile jobs on TV for decades. He should be the last one to call racism. He was just terribly bad at his last job ( Q and A) and should never have been appointed as it needs someone with skills he does not have.
Not claiming Australia can't be racist but that is really not an example.
Also nobody says"abbos "anymore. What was your part of the UK like 20 ish years ago. This is just silly.
We can't help the geography but there is a hell of a lot to see in Australia and NZ and the South Pacific and all of SE Asia. Yes it's not Europe. We know that.

[Greycloudlooming]

@marapournumber4

Stan Grant has had high profile jobs on TV for decades. He should be the last one to call racism. He was just terribly bad at his last job ( Q and A) and should never have been appointed as it needs someone with skills he does not have.
Not claiming Australia can't be racist but that is really not an example.
Also nobody says"abbos "anymore. What was your part of the UK like 20 ish years ago. This is just silly.
We can't help the geography but there is a hell of a lot to see in Australia and NZ and the South Pacific and all of SE Asia. Yes it's not Europe. We know that.

So so true!
My family and I spent two years travelling Aus in our caravan. Each state is like going into a new country. Even the outback’s of each state is completely different. The food is different in each state and is different within the cities, hinterlands and outbacks of each state. I still pinch myself at how beautiful this country is.

Don’t get me wrong, I travelled so much while living in the uk too and the ease of hopping on a place for a weekend in Sweden or a week on a random Greek island was amazing. But let’s face it, the majority of British people don’t travel for “culture”. They travel for the sun and all inclusive food and endless alcohol.

All I know is for me, I worked long hours in the UK and always longed for a holiday. It’s what kept me going. Here in Australia, even after 8 years, every weekend feels like a holiday. Every weekend, I’m not exaggerating. We work less, earn more and man oh man, we’re happier here and financially better off here. My only regret is that I listened to people slating Australia and telling us how difficult it’d be moving here, that we delayed moving here. If I know what I know now, I would have moved here so much sooner.

We are all different and I’m of the mindset of ‘if you don’t try it, you’ll never know’. You might come and hate it, or you might come and love it. You do not have to travel abroad or far to see spectacular and incredible things. Living costs are on par with the uk - actually we find it more affordable here, but that’s heavily dependent on location. First Nations culture is so interesting and I find people here are so much more friendly than back home. There’s no ‘keeping up with the Jones’s’ etc, which I found back in the sleepy Suffolk village I lived in, in the UK.

I know OP has decided to stay in England. But honestly, if anyone reads this and is contemplating making the move. Just go for it, aside from my children and husband, it’s the best decision of my life. I’m glad I didn’t listen to people who were invested and determined in putting me off moving here.

[Codlingmoths]

@marapournumber4

Stan Grant has had high profile jobs on TV for decades. He should be the last one to call racism. He was just terribly bad at his last job ( Q and A) and should never have been appointed as it needs someone with skills he does not have.
Not claiming Australia can't be racist but that is really not an example.
Also nobody says"abbos "anymore. What was your part of the UK like 20 ish years ago. This is just silly.
We can't help the geography but there is a hell of a lot to see in Australia and NZ and the South Pacific and all of SE Asia. Yes it's not Europe. We know that.

Bullshit. Stan Grant can claim racism. No matter how successful he is he shouldn’t have had to deal with the online hatred and his bosses should have been supportive. Would you say Julia Gillard and Hilary Clinton can’t claim sexism because they are very successful? Christine holgate? Every one of them can.

And people say abbos just not people you know, or anyone I know personally either because I live in a bubble like most people. But friends and family who work with far more diverse groups of people could tell you this happens. Just say this is not your experience of australia.

I love australia, I love my life here, my children’s life here, the travel opportunities and the huge number of beautiful places. I’ve traveled a lot and there are many beautiful places overseas some of which i will get back to, but I’m happy here. Yo contextualise the above that I’m not punching down on australia, but it’s not perfect.

[marapournumber4]

Never said it was perfect. Far from it. He was just the wrong person for the job. He waffled on for so long nobody got a chance to answer a question. Jeremy Fernandez would have been heaps better ( not a white person for people following along at home). He has no charisma and cannot host a show which relies on that. He has had so many opportunities for decades and now has cracked it because he is bad at his job.
I don't know anything about his online hatred. Has that been released?

[Hell121]

great post @Greycloudlooming we can’t wait to get there!

[HoppingPavlova]

And people say abbos just not people you know, or anyone I know personally either because I live in a bubble like most people. But friends and family who work with far more diverse groups of people could tell you this happens. Just say this is not your experience of australia

Know this wasn’t directed at me, but I can honestly answer that I haven’t heard that for the last 20/25 years. Before that yes, absolutely. Also, don’t live in a bubble as exposed to a diverse group of society including poorly educated, and those who think nothing of calling their own young children cunts as they have made their parents get off their arse/drink/bong to bring them in with an emergency illness/accident. But, nope, have not heard the term abo (traditionally had one b) for around 20 years from anyone. Funnily, general society here has progressed in that time.