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OP posts:
Sunsetandsunrise · 07/07/2023 16:38

Outofthepark · 03/06/2023 16:41

Because noone wants to be a teacher because the job is so awful and they get slagged off all the time!

I have a friend who has three kids and I was gobsmacked to find out she didn’t realise teachers work long hours and work hard! I set her straight.

I’m not saying teachers are perfect and that some don’t have their own bias and favourites and some can be miserable to certain kids etc, but to me it was unbelievable she was whining about now getting an email back from her child’s class teacher and apparently oblivious to their work load despite having kids aged 9-14. It just shows some parents have no idea.

TurtleRecall · 07/07/2023 16:40

So we have a system that is intolerable for teachers and intolerable for many pupils.

We have a system that both demonises teachers for wanting fair pay and working conditions, and the children who are trapped in a system that does not deal well with SN, whilst at the same time there aren’t enough special schools and many PRUs have been closed down?

This might be a simplistic question , but why are we still flogging away at a system that’s failing most people within it?

How could it be improved for everyone involved?

(I come from a position of home edding my child due to SN and school utt

TurtleRecall · 07/07/2023 16:44

TurtleRecall · 07/07/2023 16:40

So we have a system that is intolerable for teachers and intolerable for many pupils.

We have a system that both demonises teachers for wanting fair pay and working conditions, and the children who are trapped in a system that does not deal well with SN, whilst at the same time there aren’t enough special schools and many PRUs have been closed down?

This might be a simplistic question , but why are we still flogging away at a system that’s failing most people within it?

How could it be improved for everyone involved?

(I come from a position of home edding my child due to SN and school utt

Sorry, posted accidentally!

utterly letting him down - teachers and pastoral staff.
SM HE groups have grown in the last few years, with many “newcomers” being teachers who have left partly because they can’t cope with the job, but also because they don’t want their children to go to school such as they are - they’re not happy with the curriculum, with behaviour strategies, with the one size fits all approach.

When my son was still at school it

TurtleRecall · 07/07/2023 16:49

Sorry, something wrong with my phone or MN - it keeps randomly posting!

It was frustrating at school because so many children were being failed because of the school’s guidelines and policies, a senco that didn’t give two hoots about any pupils.

If teachers are leaving in droves at some point something must surely be done?
Can we not emulate a Scandinavian type system that tends to lead to thriving teachers and pupils? What we’re doing now is not working.

ThrallsWife · 08/07/2023 00:01

lieselotte · 07/07/2023 16:31

I wonder how teachers managed to deal with us back in the day. They seemed to keep us in line without petty detentions every five minutes. (I am not old enough for corporal punishment to have been the "answer" by the way!)

Large swathes of kids do not want to go to school. Many that do want to go to school do not want to do the work but it was ever thus

Teachers were not under pressure to force every student to achieve an arbitrary target. Students were allowed to fail, so if they didn't want to work, there was no need to get into conflict over it. The way books looked and the quality of work in them was not scrunitised for the latest fads - again, less conflict potential.

Teachers were backed up by parents. If Jack didn't fall in line, he'd be in for a punishment at home as well as at school. Nowadays, parents back their kids up without even considering the other side (or the other 29 kids in the room). The responsibility for behaviour falls on the teacher, not the kids or parents.

Many school refusers were allowed to not go to school. Nowadays, there are teachers driving out in mini buses to pick them up and make them go to school, where they then spend every day disrupting.

Expulsions were an actual threat. Even a permanently excluded child has a way back in these days, and that is after a massive paper trail, often needing years' worth of evidence, before a permanent exclusion can take place. No way would a child "back in the day" have hit a teacher and be seen in the classroom again. In my school many years back, a kid in my class got excluded for merely telling a teacher to shut up. I can now get called a cunt on a daily basis and have the life of my family threatened without more than a detention happening (which won't be attended).

And finally, if a kid truanted, well, tough. We've wised up to what they might be up to, but back in the day, if they didn't attend, that was it. These days they can walk out of a lesson and be brought back 15mins later with me expected to catch them up on what the rest of the class did in that time.

napody · 08/07/2023 07:32

lieselotte · 07/07/2023 16:31

I wonder how teachers managed to deal with us back in the day. They seemed to keep us in line without petty detentions every five minutes. (I am not old enough for corporal punishment to have been the "answer" by the way!)

Large swathes of kids do not want to go to school. Many that do want to go to school do not want to do the work but it was ever thus

It wasn't just the teachers keeping you in line. It was wider society. Social norms. A general deference to authority.

Forgetmenott · 08/07/2023 09:55

I agree, social changes have a lot to do with it. Kids know they can get away with anything so why would school be any different? And many people never see their kids, they get home at 6-7pm, grab some food and kids bedtime at 8. Kinda hard to discipline kids you never see!

Shinyandnew1 · 08/07/2023 10:00

Teachers were not under pressure to force every student to achieve an arbitrary target. Students were allowed to fail, so if they didn't want to work, there was no need to get into conflict over it. The way books looked and the quality of work in them was not scrutinised for the latest fads - again, less conflict potential.

This is huge. When I was at school-if you didn’t work hard, you were told this clearly-as weee your parents. It was your responsibility to work harder as your results would reflect this. If you were looking out of the window and dicking around-that was your own choice and it would probably mean your grades would be lower. Now, you get parents/SLT and the media suggesting if kids aren’t paying attention, it’s because your teaching isn’t exciting enough.

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