Foreign teachers are being offered an extra £10,000 to come and work in Britain in bid to fill classroom vacancies

[SerendipityJane]

Apparently we aren't getting enough immigrants.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12131699/Foreign-teachers-offered-extra-10-000-come-work-Britain.html

oh, and it seems we need to import fishermen too

https://www.ft.com/content/5a438a26-4046-4df6-b4e1-b49af82cfbe0

Most likely commit crimes and end up in jail. Which is what happens anyway. The difference is they won't be in schools for years disrupting the education of good kids. And the borderline kids who may misbehave in an environment where misbehaviour is tolerated, will see that there are life-changing repercussions for bad behaviour and will follow the rules and get a good education which will allow them to thrive in working life.

But in an academy it is only the governors you need to convince... If you have the money (which admittedly most schools don't) then it is perfectly possible to perm ex if you are prepared to foot the bill for AP.

But not all schools are academies - we're not - and not all schools have any money - we don't - and not sll
schools have access to AP - again, we don't.

Yes, I was just making the point that it is possible to perm ex for por behaviour and lots of schools do...money is often the main barrier rather than behaviour not justifying the perm ex.

Wow. So a kid puts a toe out of line and your answer is ‘fuck um, they’re going to prison anyway, so what’s the point’.

This isn't about the kids who put the occasional toe out of line. It's about the kids who, lesson after lesson, day after day, take up between 25 and 50% of classroom time to manage to the detriment of the much larger number of students who could do much better if only I had more time to dedicate to them.

I get @Florenz 's point on that. We have a system in my school which has us give kids 5 chances before they need to leave the classroom. That's 5 interruptions per student. Say, in a class of 25, you have 3 students who persistently disrupt, that could be 15 times you have to stop and deal with those 3 students. Include giving them the necessary time to change their behaviour, that can easily be 15min of time gone. Every lesson. An hour a week (4 lessons a week in a core subject), that's a full lesson every week gone due to behaviour of 3 students in one class. The other 22 children have to put up with this.

I have a lovely class of 15 who include 5 children who simply don't want to engage. The 5 frequently come in late, talk over me, swear at me a bit and then walk out, having taken up around 15-20min of lesson time to do so. They do this every lesson in every subject. The nice students who want to learn have simply accepted this now. I quote "Miss, that's just how it is". There are no consequences. I feel for the lovely kids in that class and I equally feel sorry for myself, having to put up with the disrespect every lesson.

This is not even touching on the more serious behaviours. A kid throwing furniture at me while I was pregnant, who was back in my class after 3 days of exclusion and I was still expected to positively engage with the child who had threatened the life of my unborn baby. Not uncommon in schools now, either.

But those are the kids that grind teachers down. And others around them. In an ideal world, should we write those kids off? Of course not! But if they stay in classrooms as currently happens they have a very real detrimental effect on everyone else, and whose needs should trump in that situation? That of a handful of very disturbed children from a bad background or the rights to education of the many others whose education gets disrupted, day after day? Or even, heaven forbid, the right of teachers to NOT be abused in their workplace day after day?

We have a system in my school

The bigger question behind a statement like that, is what is school for anyway ? And I don't mean that in a Pink Floyd sense.

Just a casual skim of some of the threads here reveal that what some parents think school is for is a very different idea to what some other parents think schools are for. And that's before you start adding in teachers, education authorities and ultimately the government to the mix. And even then you have to stir in the fruit and nuts of such lifestyle choices as religion and culture before you can bake the cake.

You can't really fix a system - or address it's problems - until you all agree what it's for and how it works. And in the absence of that, you get exactly what we have. A system which works for the benefit of the people running it. Unless I've missed a memo where the Department of Education get fined for poor school results. It didn't escape my notice that there is no call to import a shed load of education civil servants for a £10k bounty.

That system sounds insane. We give children 3 chances over the whole day... from age 4. State school, over 50% pp. In reality, I of course give little ones a few more reminders than that but I'm not obliged to if following the behaviour policy.

Shame they can't go to an independent behavioural unit or school

It is awful and you shouldn't have to put up with that

Don't give them any chances. 1 strike and you're out, forever. The message soon would sink in and a lot of kids who are disruptors now, wouldn't be disruptors anymore. The rights of kids who want to learn should take precedence over the rights of the disruptors.

Yeah, that would really make for a good learning environment. Kids really learn well when a single slip means they are ditched on the street.

Because noone wants to be a teacher because the job is so awful and they get slagged off all the time!

Kids don't really learn very well when they are faced with constant disruption from unruly classmates, as happens now.

There is a massive gap between 'one step out of line' and 'constant unruly disruption', however.

There wouldn't be constant unruly disruption if the unruly kids were expelled before they could constantly disrupt.

And again - where are they being expelled to?

There are kids who are not constantly disruptive who nonetheless sometimes make mistakes. Even good kids.

You would bin all of them.

It's not that simple. The PRU in this area is full. There is nowhere for students to go if they are perm ex.

They can go home. Their parents had them, their parents brought them up, let them deal with the consequences.

I wouldn't advocate expelling kids for making mistakes.

Good kids don't disrupt lessons.

You said one strike and you're out forever.
Do try to keep up.

One strike meaning misbehaviour. Not just a mistake.

So you would class children with undiagnosed autism or similar as bad kids?

But the parents won’t.

Or they have a sole parent at home, working full time, trying to keep the family afloat. Then an absent parent, which may be a reason why a child is misbehaving.