Was DP rude or our neighbour?

[CurlyTandtheTangles]

Name changed cos this is outing.
And it's going to be long. Sorry.

Background - our neighbours are in their 70's, Known them nearly 20yrs. Used to get on brilliantly. In last 5 yrs the wife (let's call her Jane) has got very bossy, disagrees with anything you say and looks for arguments - it's tedious.

So we've stepped back slightly but still look after each others houses/pets when away. DP does the odd DIY task for them.We have keys for each others properties.

Yesterday evening our neighbour came round. DP answered the door. Jane asked if they could have access through our back garden to access their back wall. A builder is coming to sort out the back wall but can't get a ladder up in their back garden (its tiered in a weird way and huge chicken house in way). Not an urgent job but builder is available

To access the back of our house you have to come through the garage and then through a connected workshop into back garden. You can't access the back any other way except through the house.

DP said shouldnt be a problem.Jane said it would be about 3pm (Tues - today) DP said "ah sorry no" as none of us would be in. And told her the times we'd be home.

Jane wasn't happy. Voice getting annoyed. She kept going onto DP about how do delivery people get to the back of house.... she was angling for DP to give her the fob for the garage and key to workshop. DP wasn't having of it and repeated times someone would be home.

Reasons DP didn't want her to have the fob and keys is because he's got lots of equipment in garage and workshop and was concerned the builder would be up a ladder at the back of our/their house and leave the garage etc with doors wide open. And also our dogs would go bonkers seeing a stranger in the garden (patio doors).

So (you can probably guess what's happened today)....

Earlier this evening we were in our garden. I noticed the guinea pig run I left by the fence dividing our gardens is in a different position. We looked up and obvious building work has been done on their wall.

Further inspection shows muddy flat grass and muddy footprints on our decking.

I can only think Jane has been in our house, snooped for the garage fob and workshop key. Made the dogs go crazy. Let the builder through.

I was/am fuming. But a tiny part of me thinks should we have given her the fob and key,???

DP seems cross and said he will deal with it tomorrow. Obviously I'm still stewing over this - DP is snoring.

It's rude isn't it? It's fucking downright out of order isn't it? Or is my way of thinking wonky (I am autistic so fuck up on social stuff lots).

That is appalling. Take the key off them immediately and I would imply that you are thinking of going to the Police now you’ve discovered camera footage (or just actually go to the Police!).

Oh my god, I would be RAGING, OP. At the worst it's breaking and entering, at the least it's trespassing, but overall it's definitely taking the piss and I would go mental at them this morning. How fucking dare they!

Completely 100% out of order. She can’t just let people (and herself!) into your house when you’re not there. The arrogance, the audacity!

I‘d be changing the locks today.

I would be absolutely furious and I'd never speak to them again.
Get your key back.

Definitely a lock change.

I'm not sure on the legalities of trespass if the had a key.

If be furious and feel violated. It would definitely be then end of that relationship.

OP, that is a huge breach of trust, which means you cannot allow her to have further access to your property.

Just get your DP to tell her that you can see they have been in the garden, you can see that they went in from the door cam, and since they had been told a clear ‘no’ for letting workmen through when you were not home you are now asking for your keys back. Return theirs. All this can be calm, polite but direct in letting them know you are not happy.

Do not escalate into silly lies about police. Certainly do not involve the police, you will be wasting their time as nothing is nicked and you gave them the keys. You do not need to sell up, or disclose this to future buyers.

Just be firm and direct: a boundary was crossed, trust breached, so for peace of mind you want your keys back and are returning theirs.

Then maintain polite but breezy greetings if you pass them on the path. But disengage from friendship.

Change the locks and post their keys through the letter box. End to that relationship. Trust is broken.

I would wait till they’ve gone out, let yourselves into their house, potter about in it until they get home. Once they’re home just a t like it’s a completely normal thing to do.

Outrageous levels of entitlement from your neighbour.

I'm not even sure it can be described as "rude" because it goes so far beyond the bounds of acceptable behaviour; it needs a much stronger word than that, in my opinion!

Change the locks. Post their key in an envelope with a note saying -

“Your key is inside, the arrangement was built on trust that the key would only be used in an emergency. You can dispose of our key as it no longer works”

Job done.

Don’t agree with not telling them and simply changing the locks. That way she thinks she got away with it.

I would stay calm because you need to stay as neighbours, so simply say you can see she’s been in your house, and you want your keys back. Give back her keys too and leave it there. If you want to add another layer, you can say that you will be letting her know the damage she caused and how much it will cost her to put it right.

Come back OP!

If OP has video/audio footage of her DH telling the neighbour that he does not give her permission to enter his property then they might have a case, considering they also have video footage of the neighbour breaking into OP’s house.

I wouldn’t take the passive approach you mention in your post. There’s a middle ground to timidly writing a letter and tip toeing up to the neighbour’s house and going round all gun’s blazing.

OP and her DH should go round to their neighbour’s house and tell her that they have video footage of her breaking into their house. They should ask for their house key back (considering neighbour used the house key to steal the garage key). Maybe they could unsettle the neighbour by telling her they plan to send the video footage to the police.

Read responses with interest.

DP is going to talk to them this evening. He is not as riled about it as me so calmer.

Until the last few years it's always been a good relationship, great support both sides.

DP thinks lines have blurred.

Jane had a tendency to treat us like the children/grandchildren she never had. And that includes often ignoring what we say because she knows best. Her entire career was built on being in charge.

Interesting several mentions of dementia. DP has seen more of them than me of late and he mentioned a change in behaviour.

That's outrageous. The brass neck of it. I'd be changing locks, returning their key and having a conversation. You need to ask for the builders details so you can inform them that you had denied access and have video of them entering your home. For all you know the husband isn't aware either, she may have told him that you said okay in the end. Massive breach of trust and invasion of privacy.

If you do change the locks (and I would strongly advise this) do make sure she knows and ask for your keys back.

What you don't want is her forgetting that the keys she has don't work any more and breaking the new lock in an attempt to gain entry.

It is worth considering changing locks on all exterior doors in case she has copied, say, your back door key.

But I do like the idea of letting myself into their house, sitting there drinking their tea, eating their cake, reading their books, waiting for them to come home.

Were the garage keys easily accessible OP or did she have to rummage through drawers etc?
Do you think she has done this before?

This is all that needs to be done.

I don't think that anyone has yet mentioned that if neighbours do need to access their property we have to let them and vica versa of course. It does need to be done by arrangement https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/going-onto-your-neighbours-land-a-A76076D34458/

I was thinking the same, it seems like the neighbour has had a bit of a personality change, also some strokes can affect people’s behaviour. Personally I would be a little cautious in how you deal with it. Perhaps speak to the husband.

What’s done is done.
I think your husband should just calmly tell them that you know they entered your house and took the fob without permission and you’re not happy about it. Ask for the house key back and maintain a respectful distance going forward.

@CoffeeYes you are factually completely incorrect
I really can't understand why people post stuff when they do not know the law

Gosh, that is such a betrayal of your trust after such a long relationship.

It's so bad, that as other people have said, perhaps she has early stage dementia?

But I also think that autistic people can be more vulnerable to this type of behaviour. I think some NT people pick up on our autistic traits and think they can try it on.

The key word in my post was might. Try reading properly next time.

@CoffeeYes nah you still chatting shit

HTH