Was DP rude or our neighbour?

[CurlyTandtheTangles]

Name changed cos this is outing.
And it's going to be long. Sorry.

Background - our neighbours are in their 70's, Known them nearly 20yrs. Used to get on brilliantly. In last 5 yrs the wife (let's call her Jane) has got very bossy, disagrees with anything you say and looks for arguments - it's tedious.

So we've stepped back slightly but still look after each others houses/pets when away. DP does the odd DIY task for them.We have keys for each others properties.

Yesterday evening our neighbour came round. DP answered the door. Jane asked if they could have access through our back garden to access their back wall. A builder is coming to sort out the back wall but can't get a ladder up in their back garden (its tiered in a weird way and huge chicken house in way). Not an urgent job but builder is available

To access the back of our house you have to come through the garage and then through a connected workshop into back garden. You can't access the back any other way except through the house.

DP said shouldnt be a problem.Jane said it would be about 3pm (Tues - today) DP said "ah sorry no" as none of us would be in. And told her the times we'd be home.

Jane wasn't happy. Voice getting annoyed. She kept going onto DP about how do delivery people get to the back of house.... she was angling for DP to give her the fob for the garage and key to workshop. DP wasn't having of it and repeated times someone would be home.

Reasons DP didn't want her to have the fob and keys is because he's got lots of equipment in garage and workshop and was concerned the builder would be up a ladder at the back of our/their house and leave the garage etc with doors wide open. And also our dogs would go bonkers seeing a stranger in the garden (patio doors).

So (you can probably guess what's happened today)....

Earlier this evening we were in our garden. I noticed the guinea pig run I left by the fence dividing our gardens is in a different position. We looked up and obvious building work has been done on their wall.

Further inspection shows muddy flat grass and muddy footprints on our decking.

I can only think Jane has been in our house, snooped for the garage fob and workshop key. Made the dogs go crazy. Let the builder through.

I was/am fuming. But a tiny part of me thinks should we have given her the fob and key,???

DP seems cross and said he will deal with it tomorrow. Obviously I'm still stewing over this - DP is snoring.

It's rude isn't it? It's fucking downright out of order isn't it? Or is my way of thinking wonky (I am autistic so fuck up on social stuff lots).

Trespass is not actually a crime, it’s a civil matter.

Outrageous.

I agree with those saying don't be egged on into having a massive confrontation, but she does need to know that you've caught her and that she has broken your trust. Keys returned to each other. Id also change my locks too, tbh.

Don't fall out with them. Like you say she has become difficult and you may need their help in the future. Just be aware she crosses boundaries from now on and act accordingly.
Change your lock for the door they have a key. Don't tell them. Easy.

100% go round and see her and confront her with the evidence. You are totally in the right and she needs to have a good talking to!

Surprised this took so long to be posted tbh.

Could she be suffering from peri too?

I agree with the poster who suggested that the neighbour may be showing early signs of dementia, if her personality has been changing.

There is no point wasting the police’s time with this, even if it is technically a crime. They wouldn’t do anything anyway. How you handle it hinges on how helpful it is for you that they can let your dogs out etc. No good going nuclear & then realising you’ve got no other pet care available.

Personally I would speak to the husband & see if he realised what had happened & calmly explain that you wanted the key back. I’d also suggest that she needs a GP appointment. I would avoid speaking to her altogether.

Can’t believe this is real tbh. No one in their right mind would think this is appropriate behaviour, let alone needing confirmation from the vipers. And you just forgot you had a door cam? Mmhm.

She has a husband who was presumably in on this so unlikely both of them have developed dementia.

I'd be fuming too & ask as above & let them
Know police are taking it seriously

This. Its not a criminal offence, its a civil matter, and you would just be wasting police time- especially if you have given them a key to your house. The police wont do anything at all.

That said, what she did was appalling and you now know that she does not respect your boundaries or your wishes. Someone like that should not be having a key to your house as if she has done this, there are many other things she may assume she is entitled to do since she has your key. Trust has completely been broken and you cannot allow someone you no longer trust to have access to your property. Change the locks.

Its not rude it's bloody trespassing and downright cheeky fuckery!

Ah I was wondering how long until the "maybe it's dementia " posts turned up.

It's never the fact that some people just show their true colours of being a right wanker.

That’s absolutely outrageous. Demand the key back or get your locks changed. The mental gymnastics they must have used to convince themselves that was acceptable is astounding.

Hope you got some sleep OP - bet you were fuming after seeing that!

I would go round but be factual about it.
Play her the footage and ask her why she did it when your DH had specifically said no

Agree change locks and use someone else in future. You can never trust them again. And tell her that!

Don't let it get into a massive dispute that would need to be declared if either of you sell your property though...

Very boring of me, but I would change the locks (as she may well have had an other key cut already) and as a PP suggests, stick their keys in an envelope and post them back through their letterbox.

I wouldn't start an argument with them. It's better just to have no dealings with people who are that unreasonable. However, I'd be glad for my own sake that I had actually seen them on the video doorbell because that does at least answer your question. I do wonder, though, if this woman used to be pleasant, whether there's something wrong with her.

I don’t think anyone’s asked ‘could she have ASD? yet but give it time.

This is what I would do too. You can’t trust her now. Awful behaviour.

I would be making a little “showreel” from the doorbell footage, with the edited highlights: your dh saying she couldn’t come in, her actually coming in, entering your house and garage. Then I’d be telling her that this is what I’m taking to the police. I agree it’s not a police matter but I’d want to put the shits up her.

this is grade A CFery and I’d be changing the locks and giving their key back. No more neighbourly relations. If anyone in the street asks why, tell them!

Why are people so reluctant to believe some people are just CF? Everything has to be pathologised and going round suggesting she has dementia is not going to calm this situation, it will completely inflame it. Her husband clearly KNOWS she did this because its his wall too and he can see its been fixed. You only have to watch neighbours from hell to realise that many, many people are just entitled and unreasonable- they dont all have dementia FGS.

Even if she DID have dementia, the advice would be the same- change the damn locks.

Bizarre behaviour to put it mildly. How could she think it would go unnoticed. I’d be livid as well. But I suppose you need to weigh up if the fall out is going to be even more upsetting long term if you have a big blow out and then cut all ties with them. I’d be inclined to speak to them and let them know how upset you are that they entered your house without permission after your DH gave them reasons why it wasn’t a good time.

Another point to consider, your home insurance wouldn’t pay up if any items disappeared from your garage or if any of your property was damaged as you gave them a key to your house.

Trespass isn’t a crime! It’s a civil matter and fuck all to do with the police.

I wouldn’t be playing any games about claiming to have phoned police or anything, I’d be at her door telling her you have footage of her entering your home when she didn’t have permission. Be factual and demand keys back and give her her keys back,

The police won't do anything so I wouldn't report it, it's a civil matter as PPs said BUT I would change your locks immediately and then post her key through her door with the invoice for the cost of the locksmith. I'd also include a note saying you have DP on camera telling her she can't enter and then footage of them entering your property and you're considering taking this to the police (I wouldn't actually go to the police but I'd want her to stew). Obviously as the trust is gone you're returning her keys to her and you'd appreciate them contributing to the cost of the changing of your locks (she won't, but again I'd want her to know you've incurred costs because of their actions.)

Be calm, polite but straight to the point.

I'd discreetly change the barrel of the lock on the front door, the one that your know your neighbours entered through.

Say nothing to them.

You now know what they are like.

You have suspicions that they are likely to try it again (or perhaps even have in the past without leaving evidence of their visits).

When they try to access your house again, without your permission, THEN you land this all on them.

😳😱 oh my god that's unbelievable! I'd be fuming and your husband was absolutely right, would Jane pay for anything that went missing if you did give access? Doubt it!

If you talk to them try to keep it neutral if you can. Calling it an error of judgement might be a good way to frame it.

This risks turning into a feud if you give them any excuse to cast you as the bad guy, like going in angry or playing games about calling the police (WTF?!). Remember she will have justified it to herself in her head and people react badly to having that little commentary torn apart.