Anyone watching the Grand National?

[PinkLemonadee]

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

People in many countries do not need to eat animals to stay alive and have good health. They choose to keep doing it and they want to do it more often than can really be justified by nutritional needs and they want it at a cheap price. This means the brutal conditions we see in intensive farming.

Oh bloody hell - that poor horse 😢

But there are people who need to eat meat to stay alive.

No one anywhere in the world needs to race horses for entertainment.

That’s the difference.

People who don’t have access to other food, yes. They’re unlikely to live in the places where intensive farming is a thing.

There are people who claim to have to eat meat due to certain medical conditions. These are certainly controversial and if it is actually true, eating meat is only really justified for those people imo. For everyone else it’s a choice, which they are of course, free to make.

The vast majority of people in countries like England, eat meat because they want to, not because they couldn’t be healthy without it. Without a real need to eat animals for nutrition, they feel they have a right to use animals for food, like some people feel they have a right to use animals for sport. It’s not so different.

@PinkLemonadee @ThisIsNotAmerican @Florenz please come on to justify this photo of a horse with 2 broken legs as not being animal abuse? I would love to hear how you don't feel there is anything cruel about racing in light of this?

As a horse owner this makes me physically sick and extremely upset. No-one who claims to love horses could condone this. This horse is not loving racing with 2 broken legs. All I can see in this photo is my many ex-racers and I'm so thankful that it wasn't them BUT it isn't an uncommon fate for many racehorses.

You are correct.

But it has nothing to do with horse racing.

Animals should not be used for entertainment purposes if it causes them pain or suffering.

Whether animals should be used for food is an important topic but one for a different thread.

Luckily the Mail on Sunday tipped off the police about 'the vegan mob who were going to disrupt the day. Surprised anti growth, climate change and lefty woke activists weren't added into the mix.

Insulting people who have different opinions to yourself doesn't make you superior, in fact it makes you come across as incredibly dense.

https://horseracingwrongs.org/category/how-they-die/

This link , mainly USA but it is very disressing reading

And it's a long , long list

The horse wasn’t whipped repeatedly. Jockeys often wave the whip which might appear to be making contact but it is not. There are strict rules about whip use, and to reiterate, the racing whip isn’t a riding crop - it’s padded foam and not painful.

Four horses fell in the race, with a number more unseating the jockey, but many also pulled up when their chance had gone or they became tired - would you prefer the jockeys kept them going to try to achieve a greater number of finishers?

Horses also don’t die in the National every year.

The jumps aren’t actually particularly high. They’re constructed from soft brush unlike standard steeplechase fences, and are quite forgiving as horses can jump through them. The lower they are made, the more likely horses will jump them at speed, so lowering them may actually make the race more dangerous.

I do agree that lowering the numbers to 30 would be sensible. There are rules for qualification and there are few horses running now who have no chance at all compared to, say, 20 years ago, but it is a large field and the issues at the early fences this year (not helped by the rushed start) would be lessened with fewer horses.

I do understand why people are against horse racing and I accept more can be done in terms of some welfare issues, but there are often a lot of factual inaccuracies quoted which doesn’t help.

You criticise inaccuracies and yet give vague statements like "horses don't die every year". Maybe not but some years you get multiple deaths. There have been 16 deaths I the last 23 years. That's a 2/3rds rate if we take an average

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equine_fatalities_in_the_Grand_National

Also, if whips don't hurt, why use them? A whip is positive punishment. Adding pain to get the right behaviour.

Quite simply, if you take away the money from this industry, it wouldn't exist. Many other equestrian pastimes exist without the humans making money, if anything most loose. But no one would put their animals through this or pay the high costs of looking after these animals if there wasn't money involved.

That’s not a vague statement. It’s a factual one. I am not trying to justify deaths but acknowledge that they do happen and this is going to be something many people oppose.

Whips are used for steering horses, and yes sometimes in finishes (I agree this could be stopped without too much issue but still necessary for steering) but they really don’t hurt - have been hit with one - they aren’t like crops.

I’d also add that most racehorse owners lose money and very few profit from their horses.

There are good arguments to be made for improving welfare and against the sport, some on this thread, but also many inaccuracies.

It is vague as you're not stating at what frequency they die. Saying they don't die st every race could be anything from 1 horse in 1000 races to 1 year in 120 where a horse didn't.

How do whips work if they don't inflict pain. Quite simply, you're adding the threat of being hit to encourage them to go faster. Yes I know jockeys will switch hand for steering but the time they are used the most is in the last furlongs of the face.

I absolutely agree that a lot of owners don't make money but those who do, make big money. Ontop of that so many people profit form racing. The trainers, bookies, tv channels etc. I'd still stand by by statement that the sport wouldn't exist without the money.

I believe the worst inaccuracies come from the industry itself. They will never release the figures on how many go to slaughter, how many die off the tracks or how many are put down months after a race industry.

When a horse falls they erect a tent for "privacy" or don't repeat show it on tv. It's cowardly. They know the uproar or people turning away from he sport if they saw what the crowds had to watch the poor animal be destroyed. They barely mention the fallers on tv or do so in the vaguest terms. Anyone could see that Hill Six was dead/dying the moment he hit the ground. The jokey could tell, he didn't rush to it like they normally do because the horse was dead. Yet all ITV kept saying was "we'll update you as soon as we know more." They want to put time between the race and the announcement to reduce the impact.

Used for steering! Bollocks. Why don't they swap whips from hand to hand then?

They should get rid of the whip altogether IMO.

It was a response to a PP “Every single year perfectly healthy horses die in that race.”
So not a vague comment. There are many years where horses do not die in the race.

Whips make noise and will be felt, but don’t cause pain. They’re necessary for steering but do agree not necessary at the end of a race, but the rules are very strict now about how they’re used.

Yes bookies make the most money, in my opinion. Which is another hot potato really, how gambling affects people in general. And I agree that there needs to be more traceability of horses after their career is over. That’s a big area where racing needs to do a lot better.

I don’t know why ITV chose to be so woolly about their commentary on Saturday, they are not normally. Yes it was instantly obvious Hill Sixteen was dead possibly before he even hit the ground.

They do?

'Whips make noise and will be felt, but don’t cause pain'

World Horse Welfare research says there's no reason to assume whips don't cause pain

My horse would know if I hit him, even if it didn't cause him extreme pain he would know it meant I was angry (dd and I never use whips)

Barely. Just watch any race.

Corach Rambler got absolutely beasted in the last 400m.

Corach Rambler was whipped twice after the final fence, then the rider switched the whip to the other hand (the side of the rails) and waved it about but I didn’t see him hit the horse again.

He was barely touched. This is the problem - people saying things that are blatantly untrue. The rules are so strict now, no jockey will risk disqualification for a breach.

It just hurt otherwise it would be a useless bit of equipment.

They're always woolly over horse deaths. They never day straight away or leave announcements until after the filming for the day. I remember when Sir Eric snapped his leg very clear at Cheltenham, they still delayed saying anything.

The national was full of hiding the real story this year. On the replay they cut quite a few jumps. The commentators didn't mention Six Hill but did mention the horses they knew had fallen and were okay. The first jump was cut to not show the death of the horse and and to avoid showing how much danger there was in that race. They had two loose horses running on the inside fence where it's staffed and I'm pretty sure one of the loose horses jumped fence 1 on the second time round whilst hill six was lying dead and tented. Luckily most of the other loose horses followed the pack.

If horses dying is part of the risk of horse racing, why do they hide it? They are ashamed of it.

Well I guess you couldn't see what he was doing once he swapped the whip 🤷‍♀️

Of course you can still see it, as would the stewards. You can still see his hands at all times.

I am usually on the side of anything that supports animal welfare but with this I could not help but think ''fucking idiots''.

The are the ones causing the horses anxiety by causing a delay.

''@user1471517095 · Yesterday 17:17
Instead of protesting about probably the best looked after Horses in the world why don't they go after the owners who leave those poor Horses in fields all winter with no coats and a bucket of water? You know, the ones tethered up at the sides of main roads.''

Exactly.