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Original poster

Anyone watching the Grand National?

640 replies

PinkLemonadee · 15/04/2023 17:06

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

OP posts:
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22
VincentVaguer · 16/04/2023 10:28

allibaby · 16/04/2023 10:26

Yes but that would be an accident. Forcing them to race at high speeds over high jumps is not an accident it is preventable.

Show quote history

I totally agree with you. My issue with the GN is that they KNOW that there are going to be multiple fallers and yet they still run it (due to money of course). I cannot get over that poor horse breaking its neck at fence 1. I gave mine a carrot this morning and a pat and an apology, which I am aware makes me sound utterly mad

Sendouttheclowns · 16/04/2023 10:31

PinkLemonadee · 15/04/2023 17:20

Footballers have died on the pitch - competing at a high level has risks for everyone involved and the National has done a lot to mitigate the risks. And again, my own horse broke a leg playing in the field, so it can unfortunately happen anywhere.

Show quote history

The point is that human have a choice about what activities they engage in - animals don't.

CremeEggThief · 16/04/2023 10:42

*OT, but my vet says the worst injuries she's seen are from Polo

She also had to take a sabbatical after working in Kentucky for the eventing as it was so hot all the horses were colicking*

All examples of animal exploitation in my opinion, but I don't think these issues would be looked at while the main focus is on racing.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 10:44

I remember reading about the death of Up For Review at the first fence in 2019 so I wonder if that fence has been altered in the interim years ?

DrPrunesqualler · 16/04/2023 10:46

@Sendouttheclowns
What a truly distressing article.
But Thankyou for posting.

Tealsofa · 16/04/2023 10:48

TizerorFizz · 16/04/2023 09:57

Honestly, take ex racecourses if you own horses. You know perfectly well they are bred to race and jump. They can die in a field! Or cantering. One of mine did! All types of horses can be neglected as very many are. Or just left with a boring life as cannot be ridden. Just kept as bored pets. Better to race than have no horse life at all. How come no one protests when the RSPCA rescue emaciated horses! They haven’t had any love and attention! People just focus on racing because they are ignorant and poorly informed.

How come no one protests when the RSPCA rescue emaciated horses!

Why would anyone protest horses being RESCUED????

People do protest against animal cruelty

AbbaG12 · 16/04/2023 10:51

VincentVaguer · 16/04/2023 10:06

Tbf horses can injure themselves badly enough to be euthanized when they are out in the field. One of my sister's horses got stuck in a fence, broke it in panic and impaled itself on the post.

The first thing I do in the morning is watch them moving towards me to see if any are on three legs!

So I'll ask again, why is it sensible to gallop an animal at high speed, over hurdles and jumps, when they're fragile enough to hurt themselves so easily in fields or gentle exercise?

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 10:55

This is how much respect trainers have for their horses - Warning - distressing picture.

Wow I didn’t realise the huge number of deaths that happen!

I knew they happened but not to that extent.

That is also the number of recorded deaths in well known races but I dread to think how many deaths happen whilst training or lesser known races too.

I cannot believe that in this day and age something so barbaric is allowed to continue.

ticktock19 · 16/04/2023 11:01

David Lammy is just about to discuss racing / cruelty on LBC

TizerorFizz · 16/04/2023 11:24

@Tealsofa
Are you completely mad? These horses have become emaciated and distressed over years. Not a split second fall and immediate vet care! The vast majority are put down! They don’t get to go to that grassy haven you seem to think exists. Breathtaking ignorance.?

You see far too many people not looking after horses and dogs and no one cares. You all seem to focus on a few racehorses. Utterly ridiculous.

Plus. It’s not barbaric to race a horse bred for that job. What David Lammy knows about horses could be written on a postage stamp!

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 11:25

It’s not barbaric to race a horse bred for that job.

It is barbaric to breed horses for that job though.

Have a think...

IClaudine · 16/04/2023 11:29

What David Lammy knows about horses could be written on a postage stamp

Does that mean he can't host a phone in on the subject? Why don't you call the programme and educate him and his listeners?

Seriously, the lengths some people are going to in order to defend the indefensible is quite the spectacle.

CriticalAlert · 16/04/2023 11:31

Horses have died at the grand national. It's cruel and should be stopped. It won't be because of the money and upper class involvement. I think the protesters were doing the right thing.

Liamgallaghersparka · 16/04/2023 11:32

CriticalAlert · 16/04/2023 11:31

Horses have died at the grand national. It's cruel and should be stopped. It won't be because of the money and upper class involvement. I think the protesters were doing the right thing.

Agree 100 per cent.

IClaudine · 16/04/2023 11:33

You see far too many people not looking after horses and dogs and no one cares. You all seem to focus on a few racehorses. Utterly ridiculous

How on earth can you claim to know none of us posting here care about animal welfare more generally. Utterly ridiculous.

Farmerama1 · 16/04/2023 11:38

CriticalAlert · 16/04/2023 11:31

Horses have died at the grand national. It's cruel and should be stopped. It won't be because of the money and upper class involvement. I think the protesters were doing the right thing.

Seconded. I ride and I used to enjoy this race but I’m done.

I’d be open to making the National safer for horses and jockeys but there’s a level of arrogance in supporters of this race that mean it is easier to campaign to stop it entirely. It is the only way to prevent the animal cruelty apologists from watering down or ignoring safety measures.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 11:47

ticktock19 · 16/04/2023 11:01

David Lammy is just about to discuss racing / cruelty on LBC

At least we'll be spared Steve Allen's viewpoint tomorrow morning .

I think head-of-a-pin would replace the postage stamp Hmm

Tealsofa · 16/04/2023 11:47

TizerorFizz · 16/04/2023 11:24

@Tealsofa
Are you completely mad? These horses have become emaciated and distressed over years. Not a split second fall and immediate vet care! The vast majority are put down! They don’t get to go to that grassy haven you seem to think exists. Breathtaking ignorance.?

You see far too many people not looking after horses and dogs and no one cares. You all seem to focus on a few racehorses. Utterly ridiculous.

Plus. It’s not barbaric to race a horse bred for that job. What David Lammy knows about horses could be written on a postage stamp!

You put:
How come no one protests when the RSPCA rescue emaciated horses!

I replied:
Why would anyone protest horses being RESCUED????

People do protest against animal cruelty

I'm not sure how much clearer I cam be??

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 12:15

@TizerorFizz

Your lack of knowledge around the subject is laughable.

Instead of spouting things that don’t make sense why not educate yourself and learn about it.

You enjoy horse racing because you think entertainment is more important than horses welfare, that is your opinion.

But just say that instead of trying to divert the subject onto something else by saying what about XYZ when they’re irrelevant.

GonnaGetGoingReturns · 16/04/2023 12:16

Grand National has long been known as cruel and barbaric and Sir Lester Piggott disagrees with whipping horses.

One of the last times I attended horse racing events was when a client of ours (accountants) invited us to their stables/yard before the Epsom races. You wouldn’t believe the money they made (from the accounts). I’d never now go to horse races or dog tracks.

My friends in America are far more against horse and dog racing and they’re not activists by any means, they just think it’s cruel but maybe it’s different there?

Maestoso · 16/04/2023 12:29

The thoroughbred breeding industry is where it starts and it's barbaric. Most (a very high percentage) mares have a caslick operation in order to be able to breed successfully. This involves slicing a sliver off each side of the vulva and sticking it together, leaving a small gap at the bottom for urination. This is because TBs have been bred to run, not to breed, and resulted in a tilted pelvis which means the anus is slightly tipped/sunken and droppings, instead of falling away, fall against the vulva. Further, this tilting results in pneumovagina (also called windsucking) as the vulval seal is not intact and draws in the droppings. This means that uncaslicked mares often have a bacterial infection which means they will perform less well in a race and if used for breeding, are difficult to get in foal and retain a pregnancy. Hence the solution of the caslick operation. The seal is cut open for breeding (natural only for TBs as AI'd foals cannot be registered), the mare is bred and stitched back up. Once due to foal, the vulva is reopened for foaling.

And that's just the start of TB life.

Maestoso · 16/04/2023 12:30

Sorry, the "sticking it together" should read "stitching".

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 12:35

Maestoso · 16/04/2023 12:29

The thoroughbred breeding industry is where it starts and it's barbaric. Most (a very high percentage) mares have a caslick operation in order to be able to breed successfully. This involves slicing a sliver off each side of the vulva and sticking it together, leaving a small gap at the bottom for urination. This is because TBs have been bred to run, not to breed, and resulted in a tilted pelvis which means the anus is slightly tipped/sunken and droppings, instead of falling away, fall against the vulva. Further, this tilting results in pneumovagina (also called windsucking) as the vulval seal is not intact and draws in the droppings. This means that uncaslicked mares often have a bacterial infection which means they will perform less well in a race and if used for breeding, are difficult to get in foal and retain a pregnancy. Hence the solution of the caslick operation. The seal is cut open for breeding (natural only for TBs as AI'd foals cannot be registered), the mare is bred and stitched back up. Once due to foal, the vulva is reopened for foaling.

And that's just the start of TB life.

That is obscene Angry

There was a mare who raced (I think last year ) who was very unusual in that she had foaled and raced after .
One of the papers did a story about her being a "sucessful back-to-work-Mum" ( that's journalists for you ) .

I suppse along with assisted births in dogs that was unnown till all these huge barreled dogs became popular , the increase in C Sections
But this opration sounds barbaric .

VincentVaguer · 16/04/2023 12:39

I'm not 100% David Lammy is really qualified to discuss horses or racing?

I think it's silly of @TizerorFizz to suggest that people who are anti the Grand National are somehow uninterested in horse neglect?

I'm very much anti anything which deliberately hurts horses - and that's why I've realised the GN should be stopped. I'm not a pony patter or a bitless barefoot advocate, I'm a tough old horsewoman who's hunted in the past, exercised point to pointers and now event. That race yesterday was barbaric.