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Original poster

Anyone watching the Grand National?

640 replies

PinkLemonadee · 15/04/2023 17:06

Just put it on to see protesters being dragged off the track. Feel bad for the horses in the ring, it looks warm and there's so many people about.

OP posts:
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22
Darker · 16/04/2023 12:53

Anyone can turn on the telly, watch the race and reasonably conclude that it’s barbaric. You don’t have to be an expert in equine matters to see what’s right in front of you.

Perhaps people who like racing have become a little desensitised to it because the ‘group think’ is that’s it’s ok.

ilovesooty · 16/04/2023 13:05

mbosnz · 15/04/2023 17:38

The Grand National is extremely problematic, with, as I understand it, an unusually high equine mortality rate.

I'm fairly pragmatic about horse-racing, have a background with horses, including trotters, but I'm ambivalent about this one.

I'm also very cynical about how genuine the protesters are in their care and concern for the animals. They don't seem to care much for the animals impacted by their behaviours.

Aintree didn't even make the list of courses with the most fatalities last year

https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/#c=11&j=&g=&sd=&ed=&p=1

Race Horse Death Watch

https://www.horsedeathwatch.com/#c=11&j=&g=&sd=&ed=&p=1

catmania · 16/04/2023 13:29

Instructionmanual · 15/04/2023 18:26

I've been involved with horses all my life. My partner and I have 6 at the current time, two we bred ourselves.

What's wrong with racing?
Horses don't fully mature physically until they are 5, ideally 6 years old. (If you want a reference for that Google Dr Deb Bennett Ranger article). Racehorses are broken (I use the word advisedly) as two year olds. In fact, because their "official birthdays" are January 1st they can be younger than that. At that age the growth plates in their skeleton have not closed up. Physically they are not mature. We know not to over-exercise puppies, but it's OK with baby racehorses. They are so young they don't even have full tails.
Horses are naturally herd animals, needing physical company and contact with others, freedom to run and forage. Racehorses spend most, if not all of their day shut in the stable. Yes, by human terms they are treated like royalty - fed the best, washed and polished, given the right rugs and lovely bedding. By horse terms that's cruelty. Many respond by developing stable "vices" (in the zoos they call it zoochosis, but it a stable it's OK). They sway, lock their teeth on hard surfaces and gulp, they box walk... you get the picture. Often V shaped grills are put up at their doors to stop them swaying from foot to foot in the doorway (it's called weaving). Others are said to love their stables because they spend a lot of time sleeping or just standing - that's not love, that's shutdown. I've worked with a lot of ex racers, they all, literally all, had some sort of gut problems because of the stable stress and probably lack of movement and natural foraging. That means hind gut issues or ulcers. At the age of two maybe.
There is massive wastage in the racing industry. Just Google it for yourself. Wastage means dead horses, which can be before they even start training.
I heard someone on the radio saying the horse must love it or they wouldn't do it. That's bollocks, they do it because they've been trained to do it and are being pushed along by the jockey.
Someone else said they love it because if they lose their jockey they keep galloping and jumping. Racehorses in a race are operating in a state of high tension. When horses are stressed and adrenalin filled they crave the safety of the herd. So of course they keep running and jumping, they need to stay with the others. This is why we have seen racehorses desperately carrying on with a broken leg.
Of course the people who own and look after these animals love them. But if you truly love an animal then ignorance is no excuse for treating them like this. I often think that if horses vocalised in the same way that dogs do they wouldn't be subjected to half the crap that they are.
What happens when a racehorse retires? If they are lucky they end up being re-trained for regular riding and with a kind owner. Their dodgy guts are medicated. Their crap hooves are looked after properly and recover from their early shoeing and long periods stabled.
For others the picture is not so rosy. Even the Queen couldn't give a stuff about what happened to her horses after racing, unless they were being bred of course. It's know that one of her National winners was found abandoned in field in a sorry state. Another was discovered going through a French race followed by auction. That means the fast ones go on to keep racing, the others go for meat.
I do not agree with what the protesters did, but honestly something needs to be done to raise the standards of how horses are expected to be kept and used. Raising the age racehorses are allowed to race to maybe 4 years old would be a start. But their owners won't want to pay for their keep for that long.

Anyway, I'm not going to argue the toss about this. I know the next thing will be people piling in to say I don't know what I'm talking about, but I do. I did grunt work at a racing stable as a youngster, and thought it was wonderful. Education is a great thing and changed my view completely. Because I'm not going to argue about it, this will be another name change I guess. 😂

A great informative and knowledgable post Instructionmanual. Those poor horses have too much stress and pressure put on their still growing and developing bodies. I am an ex groom and horse owner and have worked in a yard where we had two racers who had behavioural problems. No doubt due to the life they were forced to live and i wonder if maybe they were in pain due to being broken and raced at a young age.

stbrandonsboat · 16/04/2023 13:37

Why are people saying that only one horse died during the race this year? I've googled and the number is three.

Isiteveningyet · 16/04/2023 13:43

Darker · 16/04/2023 12:53

Anyone can turn on the telly, watch the race and reasonably conclude that it’s barbaric. You don’t have to be an expert in equine matters to see what’s right in front of you.

Perhaps people who like racing have become a little desensitised to it because the ‘group think’ is that’s it’s ok.

I agree. I usually avoid it to be honest but yesterday I watched it and was appalled from the start watching them all doing all that turning . Then A horse literally died at rhe first jump. 22 of the 39 horses fell or their jockey came off and they didn’t finish. Only 17 finished the race. Horses were running loose and at speed and could easily have got hurt. At least one jockey was trampled by a horse. Then watching the winner coming down the straight, whipping that horse repeatedly, when it had just done 2.5 miles flat out. It was utterly brutal. Compete and utter carnage.

the ridiculous commentator made a comment that all sport was dangerous ie motorsport or boxing, sure but that’s humans choosing to endanger themselves. The grand National is humans choosing to endanger animals and they die. Every single year perfectly healthy horses die in that race.

one of the protesters said she was trying to put herself in front of the horses to stop it, as she knew it would cause death. And it did. She wasn’t wrong.

there are too many horses and the jumps are too high for so many to take at speed. Most of them have no chance either, they are just making up the numbers, and shouldn’t even be on the course. And if you’ve got to whip your horse repeatedly to win, you should be bloody disqualified.

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 13:44

stbrandonsboat · 16/04/2023 13:37

Why are people saying that only one horse died during the race this year? I've googled and the number is three.

One died in the grand national steeplechase.

3in total died at Aintree this year.

ZeroWorshipHere · 16/04/2023 13:50

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ThisIsNotAmerican · 16/04/2023 14:01

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 11:25

It’s not barbaric to race a horse bred for that job.

It is barbaric to breed horses for that job though.

Have a think...

I think most vegetarians would agree with you. But not those that eat meat - how can they?

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 14:06

I think most vegetarians would agree with you. But not those that eat meat - how can they?

I'm not a vegetarian.

ThisIsNotAmerican · 16/04/2023 14:12

A wide range of animals are bred for human consumption and have a barbaric existence and a barbaric death.

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 14:15

ThisIsNotAmerican · 16/04/2023 14:12

A wide range of animals are bred for human consumption and have a barbaric existence and a barbaric death.

That's great, but this discussion is about the national. I can be against racing and choose to eat meat. How that meat is sourced is irrelevant so I'm not going to waste my time trying to justify that.

It's a poor argument to suggest one cannot be against something because they do another.

foxlover47 · 16/04/2023 14:22

There always seems a kind of snobbery around the National , people
On here and elsewhere of course like to look down upon anyone who doesn't think it should be run , you get the oh you don't know anything about horses , horses love racing they carry in without their jockey don't you know bla bla
Of course you have the trainers who look after their horses and the grooms and work riders who love them
And then you get the trainers who don't ...
Either way you don't need to be a experienced horse owner / rider whatever to think that racing , especially this race , is cruel and it needs a absolute overhaul
But no can't stop everyone having their aintree ladies day or dress up for the National for a few bets and a day on the lash eh , screw the horses welfare

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 14:22

brooksidebackside · 16/04/2023 14:15

That's great, but this discussion is about the national. I can be against racing and choose to eat meat. How that meat is sourced is irrelevant so I'm not going to waste my time trying to justify that.

It's a poor argument to suggest one cannot be against something because they do another.

Show quote history

Exactly - it isn't an all-or-nothing

Whenever there's a post about any form of animal abuse there will be someone frothing at the keyboard "Well I assume you're VEGAN aren't you "

You can eat meet and be opposed to circuses
You can eat meat and be opposed to animal testing
You can eat fish and be opposed to rabbits being kept in a hutch alone with no space or company
And you can be a non-horse experienced meat eater and object to the GN

I don't go off to work and expect to die .
But a racehorse can start a race knowing there's an abnormally high chance of coming off the track on a stretcher (except the dont know this because animals have no apparant sense of lifespan . But everyone watching or taking part will know this )

IfYouLikePinaCoIadas · 16/04/2023 14:26

Vegetarians don't care about animals. You seen the state of the dairy industry?

foxlover47 · 16/04/2023 14:29

@IfYouLikePinaCoIadas I'm
Vegetarian and don't eat or drink any dairy ... I can't call myself a full vegan though due to the horses I work with having leather tack / headcollars that I have to work with .. feel that would let people
Call me a hypocrite
I don't eat dairy because I do give a shit about how the animals are treated

Rosula · 16/04/2023 15:08

You see far too many people not looking after horses and dogs and no one cares. You all seem to focus on a few racehorses. Utterly ridiculous.

If no-one cares, how come we actually have laws against that? How come we have a number of generously funded charities working to prevent cruelty to animals generally?

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 15:48

ThisIsNotAmerican · 16/04/2023 14:01

I think most vegetarians would agree with you. But not those that eat meat - how can they?

Show quote history

There is a massive difference between breeding animals to eat or for pet food vs using them and making them suffer as solely entertainment.

Of course animals for human consumption is a massive issue and it’s discussed on here regularly.

Also as PPs have mentioned other animals are neglected regularly too which is also bad.

But we’re not discussing anything else other than the GN and horse races that cause so many injuries and deaths each year and they only happen for entertainment purposes.

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 15:49

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 14:22

Exactly - it isn't an all-or-nothing

Whenever there's a post about any form of animal abuse there will be someone frothing at the keyboard "Well I assume you're VEGAN aren't you "

You can eat meet and be opposed to circuses
You can eat meat and be opposed to animal testing
You can eat fish and be opposed to rabbits being kept in a hutch alone with no space or company
And you can be a non-horse experienced meat eater and object to the GN

I don't go off to work and expect to die .
But a racehorse can start a race knowing there's an abnormally high chance of coming off the track on a stretcher (except the dont know this because animals have no apparant sense of lifespan . But everyone watching or taking part will know this )

Show quote history

Exactly!!

SomethingInTheOrange · 16/04/2023 17:06

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 15:48

There is a massive difference between breeding animals to eat or for pet food vs using them and making them suffer as solely entertainment.

Of course animals for human consumption is a massive issue and it’s discussed on here regularly.

Also as PPs have mentioned other animals are neglected regularly too which is also bad.

But we’re not discussing anything else other than the GN and horse races that cause so many injuries and deaths each year and they only happen for entertainment purposes.

Show quote history

I don’t think theres a ‘massive difference’ really. It’s just cognitive dissonance.

ShowUs · 16/04/2023 17:14

SomethingInTheOrange · 16/04/2023 17:06

I don’t think theres a ‘massive difference’ really. It’s just cognitive dissonance.

Show quote history

Of course there is.

1 is for purely entertainment.
The other is for nutrition and in many cases survival.

Its like comparing hunting foxes for fun vs hunting to stay alive.
They’re completely different.

Maverickess · 16/04/2023 18:16

By the way, if anyone wants an ex racehorse, go and ask for one. Stables will try and accommodate you. It takes a while to retrain them but it’s obviously very possible. It’s better to do this rather than protest if racing worries you.

This is part of the problems in racing, the fact that 'anyone' can go and get an OTTTB and they're cheap if not free because the owners/trainers need to make way for the next one.
They're not your average horse and they need experience and knowledge to retrain, handle safely and feed correctly, not to mention enough money to ensure they're healthy (I've known a few ex racers dubbed VB for 'vets bill' - mainly down to the vice's they develop and the strain put on their bodies in early years) and those in the racing industry, owners and trainers, need to be much more responsible to these horses when they're no longer racing.
Horses are specialist anyway as in you need knowledge to keep one healthy and happy but ex racers more so - and they're sold/given to people who haven't got a clue what they're taking on and it ends badly, I've seen it so many times over the years.
Yet here we have an owner encouraging people to go and get one if they're so concerned. Totally irresponsible.

Isiteveningyet · 16/04/2023 18:26

ThisIsNotAmerican · 16/04/2023 14:12

A wide range of animals are bred for human consumption and have a barbaric existence and a barbaric death.

So you think we don’t know or we shouldn’t talk about horse racing too?

pleasehelpwi3 · 16/04/2023 19:04

it's odd how people who love their animals put that through an activity that risks killing them.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 16/04/2023 19:12

pleasehelpwi3 · 16/04/2023 19:03

Oh that photo made me feel physically sick , that's her horseshoe you can see pointing the wrong bloody way up Sad