Eleanor Williams gets 8 years

[YNK]

Is this the right length of sentence to reflect the damage done?

I didn’t say it was? I am simply contrasting the fact that one of this woman’s victims was actually sectioned and caused injury to himself as he was suicidal as a direct result of her lies versus the defendant who injured herself to support the lies she knowingly told to the authorities.

@Eyerollcentral
So how on Earth do you know every detail as to what happened to the extent that you have 100% omniscience such that you can make the above statements that absolutely no errors were made except for the cPTSD diagnosis which you have consistently denied the existence of, so I presume you have concluded that was an error.

You are writing like you have special inside knowledge.

Yes contrasting to highlight the differences to imply injuring yourself is only evidence of mental illness if you are sectioned as a result. It was quite clear.

I don’t and I haven’t claimed to. I have just referred to the facts about the trial that have been reported. I haven’t gone off on a frolic of my own deciding that the psychiatric evidence is wrong, that the defence team from the KC down were all ‘shit and incompetent’, the male judge was biased and speculated on the defendant’s possible motivations for fabricating the lies she did, all of which you have done. This was a case about perverting the course of justice. There is clear evidence the defendant is guilty - there is footage of her in hotels and shops, card and phone evidence, evidence provided by the defendant’s own sister all confirming the defendant was lying. I haven’t denied the CPTSD diagnosis, I said a psychiatrist said the defendant has symptoms of CPTSD.

I didn’t decide any of that. I listed them as possibilities other than the one possibility that you have claimed is 100% what happened. You then replied by rejecting all my possibilities by saying they did not happen- further asserting that you know 100% exactly what happened which you couldn’t possibly know without knowing exactly what was said in the confidential legal counsel to client meetings. Or knowing exactly what the Justice was thinking when he rejected one psychiatrist report and accepted a conflicting psychiatrist report.

It’s a bit more complex than did she do the actions. There has to be mens rea as well.

@cosmiccosmos

What she did is as bad. I don’t see her actions as any different than a man abducting some woman and locking her up for years in his house. She basically sought falsely imprison men for years using the legal system.

if a failed abduction had taken place and it was proven the would be abductor wanted to keep the female target in their home for years would 8 years be too much? Too little?
this is no different imo

@knittingaddict It’s said that is the percentage of rapes reported which male it to court - but why assume that every rape claim which isn’t successfully prosecuted is true? This one got further than most and it was false. I’m in Australia and similar has just happened here.

She admitted to lying to the police in interviews about some of the allegations. She knew she was lying. She knew she wasn’t telling the truth. That’s the mens rea. She injured herself deliberately with a hammer she purchased for that purpose to try and support her lies. All these actions were intentional. If you genuinely don’t know these things read an article or two about the case, it’s all been widely reported. The court has been satisfied she had the mens rea.

I'm not very convinced by " I have ptsd" as the excuse to everything anyone does . It's getting a bit overused. And personally I do not know a single person who has been helped by a psych of any description. They will probably be looked back on in 200 years or so, in the same way we look back on"witch doctor/ shaman/ necromancer" etc. No idea what they are doing and handing out some random medicine.
Eleanor sounds a tad psychopathic.

Yes she deserves it. I'm glad they didn't hide her identity either. Poor victims of her lies tried to kill themselves.

You know what pisses me off about the lies she told ruining lives etc..? That’s what every fucking lying sexual offender does to their victims and their victims family and we are told that it’s just part of life. It’s he said/she said blah blah.
Yes she deserves her sentence
The arsehole who assaulted me and lied about it (a doctor) and misled dozens of HCPS will never be sentenced or charged. Even though I can (and have) proven his lies.
Works both ways

Not long enough.
I'd also like to see accused rapists given the same anonymity as rape victims until proven guilty.

Couldn't believe it was so little. She'll be out in a few years. Disgraceful. You get a lot more / double for killing a burglar who breaks into your home!

@butterup I’m so sorry for all of that.

Of course rape conviction statistics are a disgrace but that doesn’t mean what Williams did is therefore defensible. I’m uncomfortable with how quick people are to overlook the racial element in her accusations. Shades of Emmett Till and similar cases for me.

FFS. The whataboutery in this thread is appalling.

Stop with the "but men..." thing. It's ridiculous. This woman did something heinous. And something that is anti woman. Because she'd made it harder for women to be believed.

This case stands alone. It has nothing to do with the sentencing of men. This is a case of a woman who for years, ruined the lives of three people and their families. She accused them of just about the worst thing you can accuse them of. They lost all their friends, they were attached by right wing vigilantes. They had to flee their homes. They were suicidal.

And all you can say is "but men..."

Shades of Emmett Till and similar cases for me.

Indeed

A lot of concern for women on this thread. There will most definitely have been many women and children who have had their homes smashed at night, endured slurs in workplaces and schools and in public, had to flee the town, etc.

I definitely 100% agree that legitimising real rape cases is a significant and urgent issue. At the same time, it's not a race to the bottom for treating certain categories of victims (whether on the basis of race or gender) as sub-human or less deserving of attention.

I agree with you.

I'm reading some of the misguided posts on here and thinking "but that could apply to rapists too". I'm sure that's not where we are wanting to go, is it?

99% of women aren't lying. I was listening to a program recently and it might be a figure less than 10% (I can't remember exactly). That's a huge number of women not being believed, not getting justice. That is not acceptable.

Yep, nobody on mumsnet has ever rushed to say of any rapist "yes but he had a really tough childhood and probably mental health problems too"

Listen to yourselves. She ruined many women's lives too. Imagine being the wife, partner or mother of those men.

Stop defending her and stop with the false equivalence distractions. Face up to the fact that a woman has done this and stop trying to point out squirrels.

Agree it is shameful to see people make justifications for her "she is mentally unwell." Do we say the same thing to people who bomb buildings, male rapists, paedophiles?

The saying mud sticks is true in this case. All these guys will still be seen as rapist as some people will say "not guilty does not mean innocence." Also one of the guy accused did an interview and said how some of his neighbours still do not believe him and told the Housing Agency to get rid off him because he is a rapist. Not to mention that although it is a 8 and a half year sentence there is a chance she will be out in 2025. And lets face it most of us know people like her cannot be reformed.

Also one of the guy accused did an interview and said how some of his neighbours still do not believe him and told the Housing Agency to get rid off him because he is a rapist.

Good grief. People are awful.

Given the number of lives she has ruined I don't think 8 years is anywhere near enough. I'd have thought 20 would be more appropriate.

She has given these men a life sentence and mental illness That kind of shit sticks 8 years is not long enough

For those trying to compare this to rape sentences, so you really think a man who raped three women, then encouraged groups of violent men to attack their victims' homes and intimidate the victims and their families, over a period of years (and encouraging everyone in their area to buy and display items to demonstrate their support for him) would get a lesser sentence?

I think you need to read all the details of this offence that happened over years, and insert a rapist into her place, and the women and their families as victims. I don't think any judge would give him less. And mumsnet wouldn't be finding excuses for him.