Tenants making viewings difficult

[areweonabreak]

We have a flat that we rent out. It was my DH’s flat before we met. It’s been rented out for 10 years now (by only 2 tenants) but we’re now in a position where our own house needs a lot of money spending on it and we want to free up some capital.

we do feel bad for the current tenant, we offered them first refusal to buy the flat (it’s on the market for £90k) but they cannot afford it (even though a mortgage would probably be cheaper than the rent but they’d another thread)

we’ve had a few viewings now but all the feedback is that the tenants have told them that they don’t want to move so they’re put off as they don’t want the hassle.

we live about a 40 minute drive away from the flat so the agents are sorting out all of the viewings. The agents have suggested that it might be easier to sell if it’s empty.

We’re really not sure what to do, they’re on a rolling monthly contract at the moment.

has anyone else been in this position before?

would anyone else recommend selling as a vacant property?

It's rubbish being a renter knowing your landlord wants to sell no matter how great a landlord you are. Equally it's horrible viewing a property with tenants in. I viewed a house and it was so awkward. The poor woman with a baby told me her and her husband couldn't find anywhere they could afford, the house was packed to the rafters with things and she told me how the landlord hadn't maintained the property at all and all its faults (not suggesting it's the same in your case). Even if I had loved the property I would have been put off by the tenants and the lack of perceived maintenance.
How well do you gey on with your tenant? Can you help them find somewhere, provide a good reference, offer an incentive if you don't have to evict them etc? They are losing their home and the rental market is dire so whilst you are entitled to sell try and make their life as easy as possible.

Your attitude of contempt towards them speaks volumes OP. Your comment, which comes across as "Oh we offered them to buy but the silly people chose not too. It would be so much cheaper, how silly of them, they now owe us because we offered them first", shows your utter naivety about how a) ridiculously hard it is to save a big enough deposit in a small amount of time while paying greedy landlords a ridiculous rent amount and b) how little you understand how difficult it is to get a mortgage as a FTB even WITH a hefty deposit because of the ridiculous rules around it.

If I were them (and I bet this is what they are doing) I would be flat out refusing to help you and employ the right to quiet enjoyment while waiting out for the eviction. If nothing else it gets them on the list for a council house after you pull the rug from under them but alternatively it buys them time to save for yet another months rent, plus ridiculously high deposit, plus "fees that are totally not fees to bypass the new laws" to hand over to the next greedy landlord, and prepare to go through the slog of having viewing after viewing of properties only to be rejected for any number of silly reasons.

Any tenant who hasn’t been given notice, should just sit tight. You are legally entitled to correct notice. If the uncertainty of not knowing if it will be served is difficult, you can remind your LL that they need to give you legal notice. You can refuse any viewings or you can say that you will allow viewings in perhaps the last 2 weeks before the notice expires.

LLs who imply threats to tenants who won’t allow viewings are totally unreasonable. What they. Are wanting to do, is have you paying rent without having quiet enjoyment of the property AND to be getting close to receiving the capital value of the property. Actually, they can’t expect to do both at the same time. It’s rent from tenants OR getting close to a sale.

Why do YOU care whether she pays CGT?
GET A LIFE

I think people are generally intelligent enough to realise if a house/flat/whatever is being rented it’s not ‘their’ property.

however, it is, absolutely the tenants’ home.

Do not threaten them. You will loose any cooperation you have from them. They do not need to allow any viewings and can fight you every step of the way, The fact they are allowing viewings shows they are being coooperative.
And I I was looking at a place with tenants the first thing I would ask them is do you have somewhere to move out to. If they could not say yes I would not buy.

😂😂😂

bit of a stretch from my OP but crack on if that makes you feel better

I’m a LL by the way.

If I were a tenant and my LL asked to do viewings, I would say ‘no’.

I wouldn’t start looking for an alternative property until they served legal notice. If they served that notice, I’d then start looking, but I wouldn’t be allowing any viewings, or not until the last week, if they were extremely decent about things like waiving some of the cleaning requirements.

The only circumstances where I would allow more viewings or be prepared to go sooner than when legal notice expired, would be if they made it financially worth my while. Some LLs will do this, as they are so keen to get vacant possession.

When you’ve signed a contract and pay rent, you have paid for and are entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to pay for this and not receive it. So many people don’t seem to understand that. This is why I wouldn’t agree to viewings as a tenant.

And again, I am a LL.
I would not ask tenants to accommodate viewings. I would always plans ahead and look to market a property for sale at the point a tenant themselves gave notice and chose to leave….this is a natural point to sell. If this was not possible, I would give at least 4 months legal notice and then wait until the property was vacant, before marketing it. Anyone who says they can’t afford to do this, shouldn’t be LLing, as not being able to afford to do this is the equivalent of saying you can’t afford to replace the boiler when it breaks down. NO. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. A tenant has a contract and pays rent and you shouldn’t be entering into that agreement unless you can meet your side of the bargain to maintain the property and provide them with quiet enjoyment until they move out if their own accord having given notice, or you have given notice or followed eviction proceedings if needed, and the property is vacant.

People are crazy here sometimes. "Help them get a deposit together". I'd assume if they're renting a £90k flat that they're not buying because they can't afford to, not because they don't want to, that they're not in a position to just "get a deposit together" for a mortgage.

I’m not the only one to point this out. Op has benefitted hugely and set the rent, did they not?

Evict them now. They're losing you sales and if they really don't want to move you may have to go down the court order route to get them out, which takes time and will delay the sale going through. That's what your buyers are wary of. If it was vacant you'd have maybe sold already. Take it off the market while you get the tenants out so people don't start thinking there's something wrong with it because it hasn't sold

Bit of a stretch from my OP but crack on if that makes you feel better

I did say they'll be along shortly, OP - it's also why I recommended LandlordZone, where you'll doubtless also be told it's best to market it once vacant, but at least you'll avoid this kind of silliness

And the OP can do as she wishes with their property

Actually, she can't. Not while she has tenants anyway. I remember when my husband came home and found the estate agent doing a viewing with prospective tenants without telling us. We hit the roof and told them no more viewings. They then had to wait until we'd moved out to take viewings. Tenants have rights.

Do you ever wonder if you are part of the system, however small?

''@BeesOnLavender · Today 18:34
Evict them now.''

FFS...they have not even been given notice.

First of all the OP should have given her tenants the proper notice and then put the property on sale once the tenants had vacated the flat.

Instead, she decided to try have it all: continue to collect the rent, expect the tenants to have their lives disrupted by regular viewings and then give notice at the last minute when she had a firm offer from a buyer.

It doesn't work like that.

The tenants are perfectly entitled to want to enjoy their home without disruption while they are paying the rent. It is not their job to help sell their landlord's flat. I also don't see why they should lie if asked if they are happy to leave.

So OP, do the correct thing and give your tenants proper notice and then resume the viewings once they have left.

When I was in this situation I was advised to sell the property vacant, and it made things so much easier. Yes, there will be a spell where you won't be receiving any rent but in all likelihood you'll sell the property much, much quicker. You'll probably want to give the property a deep clean and a spruce up before putting it on the market anyway- even with the best of intentions tenants rarely look after a property the way an owner occupier will who is motivated to sell.
I've also bought a property where the landlord was trying to sell and of course the tenant was nowhere near as motivated to make this easy for the landlord. The tenant was perfectly pleasant, but they certainly weren't going re-arrange their diary, tidy up, or allow access if it didn't suit them. The property was positively grimy every time we viewed it and I think it put a lot of people off. Having been on the other side of this I guessed quite quickly what was going on (not to mention I have a stubborn streak a mile wide!) so I persevered, but it took months longer than it should have, and we were able to put a fairly cheeky offer in because it had all gone on so long the landlord really needed to sell. This was after the landlord had already reduced the asking price because surprise, surprise it had lingered on the market for 6 months already before we'd even put an offer in.
As a final thought a friend of mine wanted to sell a flat she owned but had real issues getting the tenant to move out. Sadly the tenant just couldn't find anything else she could afford and just refused to go. It took over a year for my friend to get possession of the property back. If I was looking to buy a property that had a tenant in it currently I would now be incredibly wary, particularly now there is such a rental property shortage. I'd hate to fall in love with a property just for the landlord to be involved in a legal dispute with the tenant for months on end holding up the sale.

People are misunderstanding that point about mortgage being cheaper just so they can kick op a bit more.
It was very clear what she meant

In this thread there’s a dirty little undertone that tenants are slightly grubby little inconveniences to be ‘evicted’ or ‘thrown out’ at short notice.

Not every tenant wants to buy, circumstance means they don’t want to commit to an area. I rent because of this. (Fantastic landlord, but we are fantastic tenants) - I love ringing up and getting something fixed without having to worry about it and I’m moving abroad soon.

Lots of tenants pay way more than most pay for a mortgage.

Landlords, start respecting your cash cows, they pay your mortgages. And get off your high horses too. You’re only where you are because you’ve either been helped or bought in 1982.

No, it really wasn’t. Lots of us knew exactly what she meant. The backtrack was impressive though 🤣

Would you drop the value of your house then??

Selling at the moment, they may have to. I wouldn’t want to sell right now.

Serve the tenants their notice, once empty and cleaned put it for sale

Why has nobody else thought of this??

I feel for both sides but it’s situations like this which give tenants a bad name. It’s not their property!!! The balance of power seems to have swung too far the other way now with the tenant holding all the cards and pretty much preventing the landlord selling something that belongs to them.

Tenants not lying about wanting to move out give tenants a bad name? Wow.